About date, days of week, and counting

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
TNTErick
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 pm

About date, days of week, and counting

Postby TNTErick » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:01 pm

There are three important part of date, 1 is days of week, another is ways of counting if name of date is determined by them, and name of month.

0.
Basic terms:
Day "tenpo suno"
Month "tenpo mun"
Year "tenpo sike" (defined officially) "tenpo ma" 'cycle of land'

Season "tenpo ma" also "tenpo … insa teno sike" is proposed but longer.
Spring "tenpo ma pi kasi sin"
Summer "tenpo ma pi suno suli"
Autumn "tenpo ma pi kasi pakala"
Winter "tenpo ma pi lete"

1. inspired by jan TepanNetaPelin on this forum, use somthing like "the 7 shining" days of week, as ancient Chinese and nowadays Koreans and Japanese using them. By the word, there are 7 shining stars, and each day of a week does one star get bright.

Sunday "tenpo suno suno"
Monday "tenpo suno mun"
Tuesday "tenpo suno seli"
Wednesday "tenpo suno telo"
Thursday "tenpo suno kasi"
Friday "tenpo suno kiwen" / "tenpo suno mani" as 金 means both gold and money sometimes.
Saturday "tenpo suno ma" / "tenpo suno kiwen" here kiwen means rock, for "ma" often refers to land or more generally, the Earth.

As well as common sky object names:
Sun "suno" "sike suno"
Moon "mun" "sike mun"
Earth "ma" "sike ma" "sike ma ni" (sike ma maybe also thought as 'planet')

Sky objects "sike kon" "sike insa kon" (SIK)
Stars "SIK lape" because relative to planets they stay still, that's what the Sinosphere call them 恆星 still/not walking/eternal stars
Planets "SIK tawa" 'walking stars' also comes from Chinese name for planets, 行星 'walking stars'
Dwart planet "SIK tawa lili"
Asteroid "ijo insa kon" because of the irrational shape
Satellite "SIK sike SIK tawa" i.e. they are SIK walking around a planet
Neutron stars / Pulsars "SIK Pusa"
Black hole "lupa pimeja (insa kon)"

Mercury "SIK tawa telo"
Venus "SIK tawa mani"
Mars "SIK tawa seli"
Last edited by TNTErick on Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TNTErick
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby TNTErick » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:14 pm

2. Numbers:
Just use decimal, which can be devided into two smaller parts, a binary one and the other in base 5.

so it'd be like this: ( luka =L, wan = W, ala= A, tu= T)
0~10:
A, W, T, TW, TT, L / LA, LW, LT, LTW , LTT, W-AA.
For bigger numbers the ala is need if there is no "luka", also ala in '5' is for clarity.
1,234,567,890: W AT ATW ATT LA LW LT LTW LTT AA.
2.718 : T lili LT AW LTW.
3 1/7: TW en W pi pakala LT.

2+2!=5 tu en tu li lon ala e luka.
6-9 = -3 LW "pali lili" LTT la li "nanpa lili" TW.
4×7 = 28 TT "pali mute" LT la li T LTW.
8÷4=2 LTW "pali pakala" TT la li T.

Update:
We can also use some weird sound themself to represent a decimal number, as we got 10 consonants (including none)
We can use the series ' k s t n p m j l w. So
0~10: "nanpa pali" a, ka, sa, ta, na, pa, ma, ja, la, wa, ka'a. (nanpa pali=count)

janKipo
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby janKipo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:57 am

Well, weeks and their days and months are pretty arbitrary and so are their usual names. It might be best to take some neutral expressions for them, ones that would work however they are decided (5-day up to 14-day weeks, months of 20 or28 days or any number up to 32 or so). Of course, with the obvious choice of just numbering them, you always have a fight about when to start, but once things get going it doesn’t matter. The seasons are a bit better although totally local (most plaes don’t have a Mud Season for example, but for those that do it is very important). btw ‘tenpo ma lete’ (‘pi’ needs two words following it.)
Like the week itself, we owe the day names to Mesopotamian astrology or religion (if they are different) but I see no reason to continue, that since it makes no sense now (in either the god form or the object form -- i the object form I miss the usual air).
What you call 'sky objects' are just ‘mun’ in tp. Some of the compound names are possibly useful.
“pulsar” is not a proper names, so an tp unofficial word cannot be made from it.
Most of your sik are not inside the air, so this is probably not a good term.
I like the biquinary numbers but would get all the first four (or five) separately: ka, wan, tu, si, po , luka, luwan lutu, lusi, lupo, wan ka ('wan deka’ to start using order of magnitude numbers) (details elsewhere in Forums) Continuing to use the additive numbers within the decimal context is going to result longer, more confusing numbers, as your cases show.
Your attempts to do math do not work grammatically “two and two do not place five”,
‘pali lili’ is not obviously a function expression to which the numbers can attach but looks like a noun which would then be counted out by the following number expression. Similarly for ‘pali lili’, unless the following number is an appositive (which we have no good tp rules for).
“count” in the usual sense (“enumerate”) is just ’nanpa’. I suppose here you mean to list in order the numerals.

TNTErick
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby TNTErick » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:09 am

janKipo wrote:Well, weeks and their days and months are pretty arbitrary and so are their usual names. It might be best to take some neutral expressions for them, ones that would work however they are decided (5-day up to 14-day weeks, months of 20 or28 days or any number up to 32 or so). Of course, with the obvious choice of just numbering them, you always have a fight about when to start, but once things get going it doesn’t matter. The seasons are a bit better although totally local (most plaes don’t have a Mud Season for example, but for those that do it is very important). btw ‘tenpo ma lete’ (‘pi’ needs two words following it.)
Like the week itself, we owe the day names to Mesopotamian astrology or religion (if they are different) but I see no reason to continue, that since it makes no sense now (in either the god form or the object form -- i the object form I miss the usual air).
What you call 'sky objects' are just ‘mun’ in tp. Some of the compound names are possibly useful.
“pulsar” is not a proper names, so an tp unofficial word cannot be made from it.
Most of your sik are not inside the air, so this is probably not a good term.
I like the biquinary numbers but would get all the first four (or five) separately: ka, wan, tu, si, po , luka, luwan lutu, lusi, lupo, wan ka ('wan deka’ to start using order of magnitude numbers) (details elsewhere in Forums) Continuing to use the additive numbers within the decimal context is going to result longer, more confusing numbers, as your cases show.
Your attempts to do math do not work grammatically “two and two do not place five”,
‘pali lili’ is not obviously a function expression to which the numbers can attach but looks like a noun which would then be counted out by the following number expression. Similarly for ‘pali lili’, unless the following number is an appositive (which we have no good tp rules for).
“count” in the usual sense (“enumerate”) is just ’nanpa’. I suppose here you mean to list in order the numerals.


Thanks for the comment. Idk I think I'm just not native to the tokipona culture enough.

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jan Seloki
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:51 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby jan Seloki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:06 am

I personally use a system somebody else came up with derived from Esperanto numbers

1 wan
2 tu
3 sili (tri)
4 kuala (kvar)
5 kuin (kvin)
6 sese (ses)
7 sepe (sep)
8 oku (ok)
9 nawo (naŭ - pronounced like 'now')
10 teke (dek)
11 teke wan
12 teke tu
20 tu teke (dudek)
人り有え人上ら人り要無。
ین لی یۆ ع ین سو لا ین لی ویل الا

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jan Seloki
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:51 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby jan Seloki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:11 am

janKipo wrote:What you call 'sky objects' are just ‘mun’ in tp.

Why 'mun'? Wouldn't 'suno' make more sense considering our sun is a star? I'm just curious.
人り有え人上ら人り要無。
ین لی یۆ ع ین سو لا ین لی ویل الا

janKipo
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby janKipo » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:03 am

Tidy number system; just too Eurocentric perhaps (but mine is totally English) and needs development into higher numbers.

‘mun’ means, basically, "bright light in the night sky” without regard to what it may be outside our immediate perception of it.

Folgore_202
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:37 am

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby Folgore_202 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:19 am

Sure, it might be Eurocentric, but come on, due to our historical context, most of the world speaks an European-based language: the whole of America, Africa, Europe (duh) and significant parts of Asia and Oceania do, so it's literally what's the most convenient for everyone.
The reasons behind this prevalence may be terrible memories for many people involved (colonial exploitation, slavery...) but no matter what the reason is, today, European languages open many doors all over the world, and doing an European-based language will appeal to more people than any other conlang based on something else.

janKipo
Posts: 3037
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby janKipo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:14 am

But tp is a conlang based significantly on something else and trying hard to not be sos.

jan Jojanese
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 am
Location: ma Onkon

Re: About date, days of week, and counting

Postby jan Jojanese » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:59 pm

Folgore_202 wrote:Sure, it might be Eurocentric, but come on, due to our historical context, most of the world speaks an European-based language: the whole of America, Africa, Europe (duh) and significant parts of Asia and Oceania do, so it's literally what's the most convenient for everyone.
The reasons behind this prevalence may be terrible memories for many people involved (colonial exploitation, slavery...) but no matter what the reason is, today, European languages open many doors all over the world, and doing an European-based language will appeal to more people than any other conlang based on something else.


Toki Pona is not an IAL. If it was European-based, it would be horribly boring and generic.
mi pilin pona tawa ijo mijomi ni


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