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Passive and Causative (pana (e) sona) - Toki Pona Forums

Passive and Causative (pana (e) sona)

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
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janTepanNetaPelin
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Passive and Causative (pana (e) sona)

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:57 am

https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona (mi sitelen e lipu ni pi toki pona)
mi jan Tepan. mi pu. mi weka e jan nasa Kipo e jan nasa Lope.

janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm
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Re: Passive and Causative (pana (e) sona)

Postby janKipo » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:08 am

This is interesting and deals with a real felt problem with tp. While tp does have an array of causative constructions, from making transitive verbs from nouns and adjectives to using 'kama' as a transitive verb (though that has problems), it does not have passives. And they would often be useful. I don't quite see, however, how Tepan's ideas work toward this. 'ijo moku' has perfectly good (though rare) meanings in tp, either "something eating" or "something edible" ("context etc. "). Adding a new meaning hardly seems helpful.
Things like 'ijo moku' are also not obviously (at least) the source of the move from a transitive verb to the genus of its direct object, which seems a simple move in its own right that covers all transitive verbs and prepositions.
Nor does the situation with 'pana sona', which is just incorporation, provide any useful information that I can see.
So barring quite a bit more detail, I don't see a case for passives here.


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