janKipo wrote:Very nice and mostly very good, with a few oddities. I don't suppose we can hope for much in the way of direct connection with the particles of tp and something like 'pu' is not going to translate (I do hope the book involved is jing, at least). But some things remain (these resukts are basded on a not very nuanced checkup) : the character given for 'a' doesn't seem to connect at all, although the one given for 'o' seems to fit perfectly. The character for 'akesi' picks up the "ugly", which is alsmost never used and misses the reptile, which is used a lot. Why "hundred for 'ale/i"? Surely there is an a"all' or at least a myriad. Sometin=mes the right word is far down the list, but I have no idea how the lsit was made, so I can't tell if this means that people wuld only get to the right reading late in the game (e.g., for 'en' and 'esun'). 'poison' is possible for 'jaki' but other things seem more likely. "Come " comes late and "become" not at all in the character for 'kama'. "sticky" is not the best notion for 'ko', which is dust as often a glue. I don't get the character for 'kulupu' at all, since it seems nver to get to getting togethr and the like. 'kute' is more often by far "hear" than "ear". Similarly, "lukin' in the sense of "see. look at, atec." is much more common than eye" either way. The character for 'nena' looks to be just a mistake for a similar (to my eyes) one for "hill, mountain" and certrainly doesn't seem to have any relation to 'nena'. Nor does the one for 'pali' seem to fit. The character for 'poki' seems to be that for 'ken' for the most part and very little to do with boxes. In many cases, the concept in the Chines is pretty clearly not the central or most common one in tp (and conversely), but we can't expect very good fits, I suppose. All that being said, this is a very nice job. Thanks.
janKipo wrote:pakala! I was just on the last line of my reply, when everything vanished, not to be recovered. So, here is what I remember of my responses.
容 seems to be a perfect match for English "can", both permission and container, but it does work for 'poki'.
容 is listed simply as "for" with not further explanation, but it hard to imagine how that fits with "do, make"
入 is listed merely as "enter" which works somewhat with 'lupa' as door and probably contrasts with 出, which must mean "exit" somewhere it all its "out" (but never "up") meanings.
合 may do for 'kulupu', though it wanders pretty far afield from classes and masses and unions and the like.
The problem with 目 is that 'oko' is likely to stay around and mean "eye" while 目 never means "see". Similarly 耳 never means "hear". So maybe accuracy has to trump simplicity (or maybe not).
I am not a fan of the 'ale' = 100 school (and 1000 or 10 000 would be worse, though the latter is certainly used for totalities in Chinese). Is there really no Chinese word for just "all" or "whole" or "totality"?
I agree that "dragon" is bad for 'akesi' even though probably its most common use was for (Western) dragons. 'lizard' is just right (it's the meaning of the source word in Dutch).
On 'a', avoiding the negative words is good, but still, the word you use for 'o' seems just right.
A brief stay on the flip side of the system I used to check your list provides these suggestions for words that still trouble me:
ali 凡 (half a dozen alternatives, this is just the simplest)
jaki 秽 (the only single word that fits)
kulupu 组 (a couple others also fit pretty well)
kama 成 (others, none perfect, of course)
lupa 孔 (several others if you don't like using the Master's name, but it is simple and covers just about the right territory).
nena 山 (what I expected, though it looks less like your character than I remembered)
pali 做 (and others)
I don't know what to do about the particles. Chinese must have a way of dealing with the problem that tp has for which the particles are designed, but apparently it is different and so there are not a subject (or predicate) particle and a direct object particle. I have no idea how Chinese form imperatives or expresses wishes and exhoratations, so I don't know what to look for for 'o'
'la',on the other hand, seems to be exactly 才
janKipo wrote:Thanks for the clarification; here is a tendency (I fall into it) to think of Chinese as unchanging from Yao to now, even when I know that certainly pronunciation has changed and basic units have become at least disyllabic.
Too bad about the particles. The matches don't seem very good but then it is hard to imagine what would work if Chinese didn't use a similar system to tp. (How does Chinese deal with the apparently unbroken string of words of apparently the same class to get them to break into noun phrases and verb phrases, adjectives and prepositions -- to use familiar terms? Are there in fact fairly clear subclassifications of living words that correspond as much as need be to nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc.?). I'm sorry my (modern) suggestion for 'la' didn't work, since it was the best match in the lot.
In any case, we now have a list that is pretty much able to stand against objections. Nicely done. Thanks!
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests