Difference between lon and awen

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mije Wi
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Difference between lon and awen

Post by mije Wi »

What's the difference between lon and awen?
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janMato
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Re: Difference between lon and awen

Post by janMato »

mije Wi wrote:What's the difference between lon and awen?
POS differences: lon is a preposition first, and secondarily has some meanings as a modifier or noun meaning "true" and existence/reality. lon has a peculiar usage with unmarked complements meaning "to place" "to fasten" (mi lon kasi e sike kule-- I put decorations in the tree)

Awen is a prototypical transitive verb. It has a peculiar usage in what to me looks like compound verbs, mi awen sona. I memorize, which is parallel to mi kama sona, etc.

They are most similar in the range of "to put" and "to hold"

mi lon kasi e sike suli. I place the decorations in the tree.
mi awen e sike suli lon kasi. I hold the decorations in the tree.

lon doesn't have an antagonist, awen does.

http://mjlst.umn.edu/uploads/5m/V0/5mV0 ... graham.pdf
Language appears to reflect an intuitive theory of causation.60 Verbs reflect several different types of causation: pure causation (such as “begin,” “cause,” “produce”), causing a specific effect (such as “melt,” “move,” “roll”), preventing (“avoid,” “thwart”), and enabling (“assist,” “help”).61 Other
words imply a causal connection (such as “but,” “despite”).62 Linguists account for that with a “mental model of ‘force dynamics.’”63 This model supposes an agonist, with a tendency toward motion or rest, and an antagonist, exerting force on the agonist, which may or may not be sufficient to change the
agonist’s state.64 This yields four possibilities: causation (antagonist keeps rest-tending agonist moving), preventing (antagonist keeps motion-tending agonist in place), “movement despite a hindrance” (motion-tending agonist keeps going despite force from antagonist) and “stability despite a push”
(rest-tending agonist remains in place despite force from antagonist).65 Verbs may also distinguish whether the antagonist’s actions have a defined endpoint (distinguishing blocking and allowing) and whether the verb includes the effect (such as “break”)."
After I read this, I thought, man, we're just re-doing the same mental models in our conlangs. We're hardly expanding our minds at all when for lack of a defined semantic model, we just fall back to the one that our mother tongue uses.
mije Wi
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Re: Difference between lon and awen

Post by mije Wi »

It doesn't seem so simple...

And don't their meanings never overlap?
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janMato
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Re: Difference between lon and awen

Post by janMato »

mije Wi wrote:It doesn't seem so simple...

And don't their meanings never overlap?
Uh... double negatives. Either wrong or it means "the meanings overlap". The double negative would be required in Russian though.

Many people have pointed out that there is significant overlap (synonyms) between words in toki pona, especially when you consider over lap between root words and carefully chosen pairs of other words.
janKipo
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Re: Difference between lon and awen

Post by janKipo »

As Mato says, 'lon' is a preposition (class P), meaning "at" and taking a noun phrase as its complement (where things are at). When the noun phrase is omitted, the assumed complement is Reality (as currently defined in the conversation) and so, as a modifier or intransitive verb, it means "true, real, correct" depending on the context (as always). As a transitive verb it means "cause to be at" so "place at/in/on". While it is possible to use the transitive form (with a direct object after 'e') along with the noun phrase complement, the usual thing to do is move the complement to the end with another 'lon' (or, usually, tawa' because of the directive nature of causality).
'awen' is a modal (class M), a verb that takes a verb phrase as complement. It means "continue, keep on" with whatever the verb phrase says. It's like inertia: what is moving keeps on moving, what is resting keeps on resting. Without the complement, it means "remain, stay, continue, not change" and so on, hence the modifier meaning of "permanent, enduring, stable" and the like. So, 'lon' is used to describe putting something somewhere, 'awen' to describe its staying there. As a transitive verb (without the complement), it means "cause to stay" and so variously "preserve, keep, imprison, fasten" and the like.
mije Wi
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Re: Difference between lon and awen

Post by mije Wi »

Thank you!
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