125- monsuta

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jan Josan
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Re: 125- monsuta

Postby jan Josan » Tue May 18, 2010 8:30 am

jan Ote wrote:Though one can say:
mi wile alasa e soweli moku. -- I need to hunt an eatable animal (for meat, not for fur).

It would make complete sense in context, but (to be picky) it could still mean I need to go find some cat food.

when I had to translate "I want a steak" the best we came up with was mi wile moku e wan soweli seli for piece of hot animal. But it still feels strange to me since we rarely use wan as the head noun.

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Re: 125- monsuta

Postby Logomachist » Tue May 18, 2010 8:39 am

janKipo wrote:moku soweli is, after all, food, not animals, just as 'soweli moku' is animals, not food, per se. It could. of course, be animals that eat/are eating, for example.

That just rubs me the wrong way. It is being used as an adjective, not a verb. But I'm still relatively new to tp and I certainly don't have the nuances down yet.

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Re: 125- monsuta

Postby janKipo » Tue May 18, 2010 1:39 pm

Sorry about the rub. And I may be being idiosyncratic here. But we have a word that means primarily "eat" (a transitive verb) and secondarily "food" (the general class of its DO), so 'soweli moku' is some animal somehow related to eating. The choices seem to be doing the eating or being eaten, and both seem equally legitimate, given tp's limited grammar. As the saying goes, "context will decide;" but in a contextless citation, both are plausible.

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Re: 125- monsuta

Postby jan musi pi len noka » Wed May 19, 2010 2:23 pm

At the moment, to force a verbal reading, you must use an entire sentence and move the modifier a "li" slot.

moku moli. dead food/deadly food

mi jo e moku. moku ni li moli. I have food, this food is dead.
mi jo e moku. mi pilin e ni. ken la moku ni li moli e mi. I have food. I think this food could kill me.

Similarly to force a specific relationship, you need to use an entire prep phrase.

moku soweli. Food made of animals/Food for animals.

mi jo e moku. moku ni li tan soweli. I have made food out of animals.
mi jo e moku. moku ni li tawa soweli. I have food that is for (the benefit of) animals.

modifiers roughly mean "is-a", "pi" roughly means "has-a", but both can mean *anything*, they're very close to universal relationships.

telo jelo. This water is a type of water that is yellow.
tomo pi telo nasa. This room has a water that is a crazy/craze-inducing sort.

And finally, some convoluted and currently apocryphal reasoning, "pu" could be a type of verbalizer. Sonja hasn't explained what pu is, but rumors are that it is like a comma, which means it could be used to force a verbal reading the way "pi" force a noun-like reading of the next word.

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jan Ote
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Re: 125- monsuta

Postby jan Ote » Thu May 20, 2010 2:52 am

jan musi pi len noka wrote:modifiers roughly mean "is-a", "pi" roughly means "has-a"
No, "pi" is just used to separate a compound modifier (built from 2 or more words) from the rest of noun expression.

each word after noun used as separate attribute, adjective for the noun we build:
jan lawa soweli mute = many (animal (lead person)) = many beastly leaders
a group of words used as a "compound modifier", one attribute for the noun:
jan lawa pi soweli mute = (lead person) (many animal) = leader of animals = shepherd

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