[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 590: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 646: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 1068: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3839)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 1068: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3839)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 1068: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3839)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5129: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3839)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5129: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3839)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5129: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3839)
Add a word for drug/medicine - Toki Pona Forums

Add a word for drug/medicine

Tinkerers Anonymous: Some people can't help making changes to "fix" Toki Pona. This is a playground for their ideas.
Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
Pije
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:54 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1107: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby Pije » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:49 pm

Drug/medicine is a universal concept.

Even in prehistoric times, primitive civilizations had medicine men, shaman, etc.

In the past, Sonja and I have discussed adding such a root word.

I'm posting this to try to generate new interest in adding a root word for drug/medicine. Please feel free to comment. If you support the word, consider telling Sonja how you feel.

Thanks,
Pije

janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby janMato » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:45 pm

mi wile sona e ni: kulupu nimi ni li ike tan seme?

kasi nasa. jan pi linja lawa suli li kepeken e kasi nasa li pilin e ni: ale li musi li nasa. The long haired guy (hippy) used crazy weed and felt this, all is amusing and crazy.
ijo nasa. (same as kasi nasa but for non-herbal drugs, like methamphetamines)
moku lili nasa. jan li pali e pan suwi pimeja. pan li jo e kasi nasa. tempo pi pan pini la jan li pana e moku lili nasa tawa jan pona ona.

kasi pi pona sijelo. jan pi pona sijelo li pana e kasi pi pona sijelo tawa jan pi sijelo ike. jan li moku ala ni la jan ni li jo e seli sijelo suli li ken moli.
kiwen lili pi pona sijelo. jan esun pi kiwen lili li sona ni: nanpa seme pi kiwen lili li lon poki pi kiwen lili pi pona sijelo.
telo pi pona sijelo. mi jo e kon ike li kon suli li kepeken e telo pi pona sijelo tan ni.

mi mute li jo e nimi AML. ni li nanpa suli. tu la mi wile e nimi noka. (tempo ni la nimi noka li lon ala lipu pi nimi ale)
We've already 125 words. I wish we could have noka back again, it's not on the official word list at the moment and monsuto has a similar problem.

mi jo e kulupu nimi pona pi nanpa lili tawa nimi sin sama kipisi en monsuta en pu en esun. mi wile e kulupu nimi pona pi nanpa suli.
I have few canonical sentences for cut/fear/??/trade, I would rather have more canonical example sentences than new words.

UPDATE: speaking of noka, http://en.tokipona.org/wiki/noka redirects to anpa, as if noka was obsolete and anpa replaced it. I think it unlikely that this word can be successfully marked as obsolete. Even pata and kijetesantakalu keep appearing from time to time. To successfully make a word obsolete, the corpus would have to double or triple so that the odds of seeing an obsolete word fall so much that no one uses it anymore. The corpus stands at about 100,000 words. Moreover, li tawa noka and li tawa anpa conjure entirely different images. To get "to walk on foot" without noka, it would be "li tawa kepeken sijelo anpa pini"

toki pona li jo e mini AA la soweli li ken ala kama sona e toki ni.
If toki pona gets to 200 words, then most animals won't be able to learn this language. (I forgot where I read this factoid, I think its one of Pinker's books where he sez animals can typically learn about 200 or so words at most, some far fewer, and somewhere else I read that animal communication systems tend to top about in the double digits for number of calls)

aikidave
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby aikidave » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:38 am

I am hoping that the absence of 'noka' at http://en.tokipona.org/wiki/Category:Toki_Pona_words
is just an oversight. How do I walk without my 'noka'? The basic body parts need to be in toki pona.

Image

They can take my 'noka' when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers!

Update
That redirection of noka to anpa is bad news!

aikidave
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby aikidave » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:59 am

Back to the original topic. I don't see the need for a root word for drug. I like moku lili pi pona sijelo.

Existing definitions:
ilo nasa - drugs
ilo lape - sleeping pill
ilo lape soweli - animal tranquilizer or anesthetic
ilo nasa wawa - energy-giving drug
kepeken e kasi nasa - to smoke pot
kepeken ike e ilo nasa - to abuse drugs
kepeken lili e ilo nasa - to use drugs in moderation
ko (walo) wawa - cocaine
moku e telo nasa - to drink alcohol
moku lili - pill
moku lili pi pilin pona mute - strong euphoric drug taken orally
pilin nasa - drunk, high
telo nasa - alcohol, e.g. beer, wine, whisky
telo nasa wawa - vodka, whisky,
telo nasa pi wawa ala - weak beer
kasi nasa - intoxicating plant
kasi sona - intoxicating plant used in meditation
telo seli wawa - coffee
tenpo suno sin ale la sina moku e telo seli pimeja - Every morning you drink coffee.
telo wawa - energy drink

janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby janMato » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:51 pm

Having a basic root word tends to be a matter of culture. A cow herding society will have a single short root word for cow, not a 6 word phrase.

Similarly, short phrases and idioms will be given over to culturally important things. So nasin pona is taoism and not Buddhism or paved roads.

But in the right context, I would expect people to act as if certain basic words had a narrow meaning. At a gas station, telo would mean gasoline and the gas station attendent would use a longer phrase to mean water. Similar story for the barrista.

jan pali pi tomo wawa tawa (pi) tomo tawa li esun e telo.
jan pali pi tomo esun Sutapaku li esun e telo.

At a pharmacy, bare usage of kiwen, telo would mean pills and tinctures, not rocks and water.

janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1107: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby janKipo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:08 pm

And, of course, when planning a trip, 'nasin pona' is a paved road, not Daoism. Good! This "let's define in the abstract" mode is just not tp, however handy we may occasionally finds the results (good because used an known, not because they are "right').

jan Ape
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:44 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1107: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby jan Ape » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:07 pm

ilo pi pana moli ala - A life giving specific thing (a healing thing)

ilo pona pana- Fixing/Healing giving thing

telo pona pana - Life giving liquid (medicine)

janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1107: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby janKipo » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:06 am

more likely 'ilo pi pana pona' and 'telo pi pana pona' but that is up for grabs. Again, defining out of context is not a particularly tp activity.

janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby janMato » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:25 am

I was reading a list of the basic words in Proto Indo European. Could it be that our intuition for what should be a basic word is driven by our experience with IE languages?

For example, in PIE, dowery, sky father, groupleader were basic. I but in Proto-Uralic, none of these were basic, instead basic words exist for highly specific items needed for hunting and gathering, like bow and birch-bark glue.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

Anyhow, by modern analogy, a modern simple society would have a word for "Walmart" and "double-wide mobile home".

What was a drug to the PIE tribes?

(And jan Kipo, what was your source for knowing that quick and to live had the same root in PIE?)

janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1107: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Add a word for drug/medicine

Postby janKipo » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:46 am

I don't think that "quick" and "live" have the same IE source (I don't see where the "l" could come from), but that "quick" means historically "alive", is 1) common knowledge from reading old stuff and 2) notes from a class in 1958-9 in IE morphology.


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1107: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “jan nasa li wile ante e toki pona”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron