This is interesting to me, what happens when we use o with wile?jan-ante wrote:well, i still have some comments. but this time they are mostly related to style and artistic perception rather than grammatics
o wile ala toki e ni:. although it is not like in original, it could be more clear versionjan Josan wrote: mi wile ala toki e ni:
o toki ala e ni.
vs
o wile ala toki e ni.
vs
o wile toki ala e ni.
does this become a way to say "no need to talk of this" or "you don't want to talk of this"?
wile again, stuck between desire and need. Perhaps it is best to just omit.consider to remove wile : jan li kepeken e nasin toki sinjan li sona ala e nimi ale la, jan li wile kepeken e nasin toki sin, e sitelen ante.
bad editing on my part, I meant to remove this calquei still cannot get the meaning: may be pana e a, but what is anpa for?ona li pana e a anpa,
mi nimi e kepeken e nimi 'jan akesi jaki’ . but you can say shorter: tenpo kama la, sina kama sona e tantenpo kama la, sina kama sona e ni: mi nimi e nimi ‘jan akesi jaki’ tawa jan ni tan seme.
You both seem to advocate for the DO being the thing being named; I think you're right (and I see I used it this way just one sentence before. So rearranging and consolidating a little, is this what you had in mind?:jan Kipo wrote:Two controversial points: 1) is the DO of 'nimi' the name or the thing named? Different specifications of the result of transforming a noun into a vt yield different results. I personally (perhaps because I speak English and use "name" this way) think the second view is best, leaving the question of where to put the name (modifying the verb? at the end with 'kepeken' or some other prep?). The other approach solves that problem, of course, and the recipient of the name gets 'tawa'
"tenpo pini ni la, mi kama sona e jan sin. ona li ,a…, li jan akesi jaki! mi ken ala kin nimi e ona kepeken nimi ante. tenpo kama la, sina kama sona e tan. ona li jan akesi jaki li lawa Inli pi tomo tawa telo. a! jan sewi o..."
onawhy sina??ona li toki e pali sina kepeken kalama suli.
ponami tumi mute li tawa lon nasin li toki kepeken e toki Pasi taso.
agreed, although now I'm looking at Sonja's units of time, and wondering, should these both have been just tenpo sike?tenpo pi sike sunotenpo sike suno wan la,
tenpo pi sike sunotenpo suno sike li pine la, ona...
pini
pona...li toki e ni: "mi weka".... li toki e ni: ona li weka.
ie because the rule starts with 'o', we know it is a command, and lawa doesn't add to it?consider to omitt lawami kama jo e lawa ni: ‘o sitelen kepeken toki Pasi taso...
It seems to me, sitelen used to default to writing, and I would confuse people when I wanted to mean drawing. Now it seems to read first as a picture, but is toki writing and speaking now? or should maybe:why sitelen? it was a poem, not miniature or clligraphymi pali e sitelen lili tu wan taso.
mi pali e lipu (pi) toki (musi) tu wan taso.
or
mi sitelen e (lipu) toki (pi) lili tu wan taso.
ponalukin e onatenpo kama la sina ken lukin e ni.
are you sure you need insa here? if you need, then lon insa pi poki ponatoki awen li kama, lon insa poki pona.
this could work without insa toomi kama jo e toki awen tan insa poki.
1.)If there is one thing I want to be addressed most in the new book and lessons, these pseudo-prepositions would be it.jan Kipo wrote:2) Are compound preposition prepositions (and so take an NP complement) or are the a Prep + the beginning of an NP (so that specifying further is a modifier to the second part of the phrase)? This seems about evenly divided, so I am not sure which way the wind blows. Does anyone have a definitive answer?
(Afterthought) Maybe also just how broad or narrow 'lon' is> It means "on/ at/ in" depending on circumstances, so when does it need 'insa' (or any of the other additions)? I am inclined to think it is a matter of emphasis rather than correctness. If the insideness is important (Jonah in the whale, say) then use 'insa'; if it is only the general area that counts, then unadorned 'lon' should do. But where to draw the line? Aesthetics
lon insa pi poki pona looks wrong to me, because it seems to emphasize insa as the head noun (which it obviously ain't). Without a way to make this distinction it seems we will run afoul. (...lon monsi pi jan pona mi still could mean "behind my friend" and "on my friends back")
2.)lon as 'in' to me sounds strange coming from English, but I have some recollection of this not being so strange in other languages. jan Kipo's distinction seems like a good one to me.
This being considered I think jan ante's suggestion to remove insa is best, at least until we have a better understanding of how these pseudo-preps work, especially since the wrapper here is fairly insignificant.
very nice, and we can avoid questionable of 'lon' this way too.taso nanpa pini.. nanpa pini la.. at the begining of the paragraph you have nanpa wan la, so nanpa pini could perfectly fit here.taso, lon pini… lon pini…”
I went with Nama because it was already in toki pona syllables, but Kojekoje fits the flavor of the passage better.i thought you will choose Kojekoje because of clearly african style of this wordtoki Jakuto anu toki Awinu anu toki Nama
ponatoki ni li tan nasa wawa pi lawa sina.
may be wawa nasa could work better
(sona) ponaken la ike lili wan anu tu li kama tawa soma mi pi toki Pasiken la ike lili wan anu tu li kama lon toki mi kepeken toki Pasi.
thanks, that is what I had meant to write..li toki Pasi pi ona taso here the repetition of taso at the begining and the end of sentence could have a positive effecttaso toki ni li toki Pasi ona, li toki Pasi pi ona kin.
yes missed this fix the last time throughkama jo e alasina pali mute li kama jo ala.
ona --missed againmi kama sona e pilin sina.
why sina? should be ona
[/quote]tenpo pini ni li pona mute.
why ni?
In English version: "Those were the good old days". What do you have in Russian? This paragraph is hard since it comes without context and contradicts a little the flavor of the story up to now. I'd be happy to put anything else in here that makes it clear the author has backed away from the narrative and is reflecting, much as he was in the first paragraph. If it was 'tenpo pini li pona mute" is would be even stranger though, "The past is good." Obviously needs a fix but I'm not sure what would work.