Before I re-invent the wheel, and poorly, has anyone already translated the Swadesh list into toki pona? My first look makes me think each word on the Swadesh list could be translated many ways into tp.
I'm trying to reconstruct proto-toki-pona. It looks like the toki ponans were neighbors of the proto-indo-europeans and the proto-uralic tribes and have somehow migrated to Canada.
Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
There is a start on tp for the Swadesh list in the notes to my LCC paper on Semantic Primes (somewhere on conlangs.org, I think).
The most plausible story about tp, in line with its foundation in pidgins, is that it is what arose when people from diverse rather remote areas came together in the wake of a global catastrophe.
The most plausible story about tp, in line with its foundation in pidgins, is that it is what arose when people from diverse rather remote areas came together in the wake of a global catastrophe.
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
Here is a draft Swadesh list. I was surprised how much gutter talk there was on the Swadesh list. Some words are rated R. Many words take a phrase or entire sentence to build up and after you built it, you won't find a place to plug it on account of not having subordinate clauses. Generating multi-word verbs is still a black art. I don't trust my multi word verb phrases.
I - mi
you (singular) - sina
he - ona
we - mi, mi mute, mi ale
you (plural)- sina, sina mute, sina ale, sina suli (in the indo-european sense of honorific-you)
they- ona mute
this- ni
that - ni ante
here - ma ni, ni
there - ni ante (?)
who - seme, jan seme
what - seme, ijo seme
where -seme, ma seme
when- seme, tenpo seme
how- seme, kepeken seme
not - ale, ali
all - ala
many- mute
some - ale mute
few- lili, nanpa lili
other- ante
one - wan
two - tu
three - tu wan
four - tu tu
five - luka, tu tu wan
big - suli, mute
long - linja mute (?)
wide - mute, lipu mute
thick - mute
heavy - mute
small - lili
short - lili
narrow - lili
thin - linja lili
woman - meli
man (adult male) - meji
Man (human being) - jan
child - jan lili
wife - meli
husband - meji
mother - jan mam meli
father - jan mama meji
animal- soweli, akesi
fish - kala, li kala, li pali kala, li pali e kali
bird - waso
dog - soweli
louse - pipi, pipi lili, pipi lili pi linja lawa
snake - akesi linja
worm - akesi linja pi ko ma
tree - kasi suli
forest - kasi suli pi nanpa mute
stick - palisa, li wan lon lipu (like glue)
fruit - kili, li pana e kili
seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin
leaf - lipu kasi, li pana e lipu kasi
root - noka kasi, li alisa anpa kasi suli
bark - selo pi kasi suli, li toki sama soweli pi tomo jan
flower- ilo unpa pi kasi kule, li pana e ilo unpa pi kasi kuli
grass - kasi linja laso jelo, ijo nasa pi kasi lipu nasa
rope- linja, li kama jo kepeken linja
skin- selo, selo jan, li weka e selo soweli
meat - moku pi soweli moli
blood - telo loje, telo loje pi sijelo insa
bone - kiwen pi sitelen insa, li unpa
fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa
egg - poki walo
horn- ilo utala pi lawa akesi
tail - linja monsi
feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo
hair - linja, linja lawa
head- lawa
ear- kute
eye- oko, li lukin
nose- nena sinpin, li pilin kepeken nena sinpin (to touch/feel with the nose)
mouth- uta, uta lawa, uta sinpin, li pilin kepeken uta sinpin
tooth- kiwen pi uta lawa, kiwen walo pi uta lawa
tongue- ilo toki pi uta lawa
fingernail- ilo kepeken ala pi luka jan
foot - noka, pini noka
leg - noka
knee- noka insa, li utala kepeken noka insa
hand- pini luka, li pana
wing - luka walo, li pali kepeken sona ala (to wing it)
belly- sijelo insa
guts- ilo jaki pi sijelo insa
neck- anpa lawa, li unpa kepeken uta lon anpa lawa (to neck)
back- monsi, monsi sewi, li pana e mani tawa esun (to back an enterprise)
breast- neni, neni meli, sinpin pi sijelo meji
heart- insa, ilo tawa pi telo loje pi sijelo insa
liver- ilo pi kepeken sona ala pi sijelo insa
drink- li moku (verb), telo (noun)
eat- li moku
bite- li moku
suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo
spit- li pana e telo tan uta (?)
vomit- li pana e moku tan uta (?)
blow- li pana e kon tan uta (?), li unpa e palisa meji kepeken uta sinpin
breathe- li moku e kon
laugh- li a a a, li toki e a a a,
see- li lukin
hear- li kute
know- li sona
think- li sona
smell- li sona e kon
fear- li pilin wili ala ???
sleep- li lape
live- li lon, li ali (but even though "li ali" is/was in the cannon, if find in hard to read)
die- li moli, intransitive
kill- li moli e (somthing), transitive
fight- utala
hunt- alasa
hit- ??
cut- li weka
split- li tu
stab- li pakala kepeken palisa
scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo
dig- li uta, li pali e uta, li pana e uta
swim- li tawa lon telo
fly (v.)- li tawa kepeken ilo waso
walk- li tawa
come- li kama
lie- li kama e sijelo lon ma
sit- li kama e monsi lon ma
stand- li kama ala (not go anwhere), ??? (stand on two feet)
turn- ??
fall- ??
give- li pana
hold- li jo
squeeze- li jo kin kepeken luka
rub- ??
wash- li telo
wipe- li telo kepeken len
pull- ??
push- ??
throw- li weka
tie - li kama awen kepeken linja
sew- li pali kepeken linja len, li kama awen kepeken linja len,
count- li toki e nanpa
say- li toki
sing- li toki musi
play- li musi
float- li tawa sewi telo
flow- li tawa, li tawa sama telo
freeze- li lete, li lete pini
swell- li pona e sijelo
sun- suno
moon- mun
star- suno pi ma ante
water- telo
rain- telo pi sewi laso, telo lili pi suli laso, telo oko pi jan sewi, telo jaki pi jan sewi
river- telo linja
lake- telo pi ma uta, telo tawa ala pi ma uta
sea- telo mute, telo suli
salt- ijo walo pi telo suli
stone- kiwen, li kiwen
sand- kiwen lili lili
dust- kiwen jaki lili lili
earth- ma, ma suli
cloud- kon, kon telo, kon telo walo
fog- kon telo pi kule mun
sky- suli laso
wind- kon, kon tawa
snow- kiwen telo pi suli laso, kiwen pi telo jelo pi jan suli
ice- kiwen telo
smoke- kon pimeja, li moku e palisi moli
fire - seli, li seli
ashes- ilo pi kule mun pi seli moli
burn- li pakala kepeken seli
road- nasin, linja tawa
mountain- ma neni
red- loje
green- laso jelo / jelo laso
yellow- jelo
white- walo
black- pimeja
night- tenpo pimeja, tenpo pi suno ala, tenpo mun
day- tenpo suno
year- tenpo pi suno sike
warm- li seli
cold- lape
full- ???
new- sin
old- sin ala
good- pona
bad- ike
rotten- moku kepeken akesi mute lili lili
dirty- jaki
straight- ???, unpa ante
round- sike
sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu
dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu
smooth- sama lipu
wet- kepeken telo lon selo
dry- li jo ala e telo
correct- pona, li pona
near- lon ni
far- lon ni ala
right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani
left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali
at- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
in- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
with- kepeken (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
and- en (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
if- la (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
because- tan (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
name- nimi, nimi ilo, nimi jan, nimi toki, etc.
I - mi
you (singular) - sina
he - ona
we - mi, mi mute, mi ale
you (plural)- sina, sina mute, sina ale, sina suli (in the indo-european sense of honorific-you)
they- ona mute
this- ni
that - ni ante
here - ma ni, ni
there - ni ante (?)
who - seme, jan seme
what - seme, ijo seme
where -seme, ma seme
when- seme, tenpo seme
how- seme, kepeken seme
not - ale, ali
all - ala
many- mute
some - ale mute
few- lili, nanpa lili
other- ante
one - wan
two - tu
three - tu wan
four - tu tu
five - luka, tu tu wan
big - suli, mute
long - linja mute (?)
wide - mute, lipu mute
thick - mute
heavy - mute
small - lili
short - lili
narrow - lili
thin - linja lili
woman - meli
man (adult male) - meji
Man (human being) - jan
child - jan lili
wife - meli
husband - meji
mother - jan mam meli
father - jan mama meji
animal- soweli, akesi
fish - kala, li kala, li pali kala, li pali e kali
bird - waso
dog - soweli
louse - pipi, pipi lili, pipi lili pi linja lawa
snake - akesi linja
worm - akesi linja pi ko ma
tree - kasi suli
forest - kasi suli pi nanpa mute
stick - palisa, li wan lon lipu (like glue)
fruit - kili, li pana e kili
seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin
leaf - lipu kasi, li pana e lipu kasi
root - noka kasi, li alisa anpa kasi suli
bark - selo pi kasi suli, li toki sama soweli pi tomo jan
flower- ilo unpa pi kasi kule, li pana e ilo unpa pi kasi kuli
grass - kasi linja laso jelo, ijo nasa pi kasi lipu nasa
rope- linja, li kama jo kepeken linja
skin- selo, selo jan, li weka e selo soweli
meat - moku pi soweli moli
blood - telo loje, telo loje pi sijelo insa
bone - kiwen pi sitelen insa, li unpa
fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa
egg - poki walo
horn- ilo utala pi lawa akesi
tail - linja monsi
feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo
hair - linja, linja lawa
head- lawa
ear- kute
eye- oko, li lukin
nose- nena sinpin, li pilin kepeken nena sinpin (to touch/feel with the nose)
mouth- uta, uta lawa, uta sinpin, li pilin kepeken uta sinpin
tooth- kiwen pi uta lawa, kiwen walo pi uta lawa
tongue- ilo toki pi uta lawa
fingernail- ilo kepeken ala pi luka jan
foot - noka, pini noka
leg - noka
knee- noka insa, li utala kepeken noka insa
hand- pini luka, li pana
wing - luka walo, li pali kepeken sona ala (to wing it)
belly- sijelo insa
guts- ilo jaki pi sijelo insa
neck- anpa lawa, li unpa kepeken uta lon anpa lawa (to neck)
back- monsi, monsi sewi, li pana e mani tawa esun (to back an enterprise)
breast- neni, neni meli, sinpin pi sijelo meji
heart- insa, ilo tawa pi telo loje pi sijelo insa
liver- ilo pi kepeken sona ala pi sijelo insa
drink- li moku (verb), telo (noun)
eat- li moku
bite- li moku
suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo
spit- li pana e telo tan uta (?)
vomit- li pana e moku tan uta (?)
blow- li pana e kon tan uta (?), li unpa e palisa meji kepeken uta sinpin
breathe- li moku e kon
laugh- li a a a, li toki e a a a,
see- li lukin
hear- li kute
know- li sona
think- li sona
smell- li sona e kon
fear- li pilin wili ala ???
sleep- li lape
live- li lon, li ali (but even though "li ali" is/was in the cannon, if find in hard to read)
die- li moli, intransitive
kill- li moli e (somthing), transitive
fight- utala
hunt- alasa
hit- ??
cut- li weka
split- li tu
stab- li pakala kepeken palisa
scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo
dig- li uta, li pali e uta, li pana e uta
swim- li tawa lon telo
fly (v.)- li tawa kepeken ilo waso
walk- li tawa
come- li kama
lie- li kama e sijelo lon ma
sit- li kama e monsi lon ma
stand- li kama ala (not go anwhere), ??? (stand on two feet)
turn- ??
fall- ??
give- li pana
hold- li jo
squeeze- li jo kin kepeken luka
rub- ??
wash- li telo
wipe- li telo kepeken len
pull- ??
push- ??
throw- li weka
tie - li kama awen kepeken linja
sew- li pali kepeken linja len, li kama awen kepeken linja len,
count- li toki e nanpa
say- li toki
sing- li toki musi
play- li musi
float- li tawa sewi telo
flow- li tawa, li tawa sama telo
freeze- li lete, li lete pini
swell- li pona e sijelo
sun- suno
moon- mun
star- suno pi ma ante
water- telo
rain- telo pi sewi laso, telo lili pi suli laso, telo oko pi jan sewi, telo jaki pi jan sewi
river- telo linja
lake- telo pi ma uta, telo tawa ala pi ma uta
sea- telo mute, telo suli
salt- ijo walo pi telo suli
stone- kiwen, li kiwen
sand- kiwen lili lili
dust- kiwen jaki lili lili
earth- ma, ma suli
cloud- kon, kon telo, kon telo walo
fog- kon telo pi kule mun
sky- suli laso
wind- kon, kon tawa
snow- kiwen telo pi suli laso, kiwen pi telo jelo pi jan suli
ice- kiwen telo
smoke- kon pimeja, li moku e palisi moli
fire - seli, li seli
ashes- ilo pi kule mun pi seli moli
burn- li pakala kepeken seli
road- nasin, linja tawa
mountain- ma neni
red- loje
green- laso jelo / jelo laso
yellow- jelo
white- walo
black- pimeja
night- tenpo pimeja, tenpo pi suno ala, tenpo mun
day- tenpo suno
year- tenpo pi suno sike
warm- li seli
cold- lape
full- ???
new- sin
old- sin ala
good- pona
bad- ike
rotten- moku kepeken akesi mute lili lili
dirty- jaki
straight- ???, unpa ante
round- sike
sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu
dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu
smooth- sama lipu
wet- kepeken telo lon selo
dry- li jo ala e telo
correct- pona, li pona
near- lon ni
far- lon ni ala
right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani
left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali
at- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
in- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
with- kepeken (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
and- en (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
if- la (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
because- tan (but varies depending on grammatical construction)
name- nimi, nimi ilo, nimi jan, nimi toki, etc.
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
Here is a draft Swadesh list. I was surprised how much gutter talk there was on the Swadesh list. Some words are rated R. Many words take a phrase or entire sentence to build up and after you built it, you won't find a place to plug it on account of not having subordinate clauses. Generating multi-word verbs is still a black art. I don't trust my multi word verb phrases. COMMENTS
I - mi
you (singular) - sina
he - ona
we - mi, mi mute, mi ale
you (plural)- sina, sina mute, sina ale, sina suli (in the indo-european sense of honorific-you)
they- ona mute
this- ni
that - ni ante
here - ma ni, ni LON NI
there - ni ante (?) JUST 'NI' TOO - ONE DEICTIC HAS TO DO FOR ALL)
who - seme, jan seme
what - seme, ijo seme
where -seme, ma seme LON SEME
when- seme, tenpo seme
how- seme, kepeken seme NASIN SEME
not - ale, ali NO, THOSE ARE "ALL"
all - ala CONVERSELY WITH ABOVE (WORST POSSIBLE MINIMAL PAIR)
many- mute
some - ale mute OR JUST RELEVANT NOUN, E.G. "SOMEONE" IS 'JAN'
few- lili, [nanpa lili NOT SO GOOD, 'LILI NANPA' IS BETTER, BUT NOT MUCH]
other- ante
one - wan
two - tu
three - tu wan
four - tu tu
five - luka, tu tu wan
big - suli, [mute ONLY IN SPECIAL CASES]
long - linja mute (?) BETTER WITH 'SULI' AND THEN BETTER AS 'SULI LINJA'
wide - mute, lipu mute 'SULI' AGAIN, NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH FROM "LONG" AND "TALL"
thick - mute 'SULI' 'MUTE' IS REALLY ABOUT QUANTITY, NOT EXTENT.
heavy - mute 'SULI,' 'WAWA'
small - lili
short - lili
narrow - lili
thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS
woman - meli
man (adult male) - meji
Man (human being) - jan
child - jan lili
wife - meli
husband - meji
mother - jan mama meli
father - jan mama meji
animal- soweli, akesi
fish - kala, li kala, li pali kala, li pali e kali THE VERBS ARE PROBABLY 'ALASA'
bird - waso
dog - soweli WITH VARIOUS APPROPRIATE SPECIFIERS
louse - pipi, pipi lili, pipi lili pi linja lawa PIPI LILI SIJELO - LOTSA KINDS OF LICE AROUND
snake - akesi linja
worm - akesi linja pi ko ma WORMS ARE PROBABLY PIPI
tree - kasi suli
forest - kasi suli pi nanpa mute DON'T NEED THE 'PI NANPA' BUT MAYBE 'MA PI KASI SULI MUTE'
stick - palisa, [li wan lon lipu (like glue) NICE BUT NOT THE RELEVANT SENSE]
fruit - kili, li pana e kili
seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin ? BOTH THESE SEEM TO MISS THE POINT. WHY 'PAN'? NOT SURE HOW TO GO THOUGH
leaf - lipu kasi, li pana e lipu kasi
root - noka kasi, li alisa anpa kasi suli 'PALISA'? THE VERB DOESN'T WORK. AS A NOUN 'PALISA PI ANPA PI KASI SULI' IS GOOD FOR CERTAIN ROOTS.
bark - selo pi kasi suli, [li toki sama soweli pi tomo jan NOT 'TOKI,' 'MU' - WRONG SENSE, OBVIOUSLY. OR 'KALAMA']
flower- ilo unpa pi kasi kule, li pana e ilo unpa pi kasi kuli JUST 'KASI KULE' IS ENOUGH, WE DON'T NEED TO BE TOO CLINICAL HERE
grass - kasi linja laso jelo, [ijo nasa pi kasi lipu nasa WELL, YES, BUT ... USUALLY JUST 'KASI NASA'
rope- linja, li kama jo kepeken linja
skin- selo, selo jan, li weka e selo soweli
meat - moku pi soweli moli
blood - telo loje, telo loje pi sijelo insa 'INSA SIJELO'
bone - kiwen pi sitelen insa, [li unpa TSK! SEE JUST ABOVE
fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS
egg - poki walo NOT BAD, 'SIKE MAMA' STANDARD
horn- ilo utala pi lawa akesi MISS. SOWELI, TOO, AND OTHER THINGS ARE ILO UTALA. 'PALISA LAWA'?
tail - linja monsi
feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.
hair - linja, linja lawa AND SIJELO
head- lawa
ear- kute 'NENA KUTE'
eye- oko, li lukin
nose- nena sinpin, li pilin kepeken nena sinpin (to touch/feel with the nose) 'NENA LAWA'
mouth- uta, uta lawa, uta sinpin, li pilin kepeken uta sinpin
tooth- kiwen pi uta lawa, kiwen walo pi uta lawa 'WALO UTA;' YOURS ARE GOOD TO BUT LONGER
tongue- ilo toki pi uta lawa 'LIPU UTA'
fingernail- ilo kepeken ala pi luka jan NOW, NOW -- VERY USEFUL IN FIGHTS. 'KIWEN PI PALISA LUKA'
foot - noka, pini noka
leg - noka
knee- noka insa, [li utala kepeken noka insa
hand- pini luka, li pana
wing - luka walo, [li pali kepeken sona ala (to wing it)
belly- sijelo insa INSA SIJELO
guts- ilo jaki pi sijelo insa I JUST REMEMBERED, YOU GET 'ILO' AND 'IJO' MIXED; IGNORE QUESTIONS ABOUT "TOOL" SO 'IJO JAKI PI INSA SIJELO'
neck- anpa lawa, [li unpa kepeken uta lon anpa lawa (to neck)
back- monsi, monsi sewi, [li pana e mani tawa esun (to back an enterprise)
breast- neni, neni meli, sinpin pi sijelo meji NENA! ALSO 'NENA MAMA'
heart- insa, ilo tawa pi telo loje pi sijelo insa
liver- ilo pi kepeken sona ala pi sijelo insa ? 'INSA PIMEJA/LOJE'
drink- li moku (verb), telo (noun)
eat- li moku
bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE
suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo WHY 'KIN'? WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPOSITE OF 'PANA' WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL HERE. [WHAT, NO R VERSION HERE?
spit- li pana e telo tan uta (?) LITERAL BUT RIGHT
vomit- li pana e moku tan uta (?) NOT JUST MOKU BUT TELO GENERALLY -- AND KO, i SUPPOSE.
blow- li pana e kon tan uta (?), [li unpa e palisa meji kepeken uta sinpin
breathe- li moku e kon
laugh- li a a a, li toki e a a a, ' PANA E KON (PI PILIN) PONA'
see- li lukin
hear- li kute
know- li sona
think- li sona 'PILIN' IS BETTER
smell- li sona e kon SOMETHING ABOUT PILIN KON
fear- li pilin wili ala ??? 'PILIN IKE' BUT THIS IS A VERY GENERAL TERM, NOT SURE HOW TO BE MORE PRECISE.
sleep- li lape
live- li lon, li ali (but even though "li ali" is/was in the cannon, if find in hard to read) I DON'T CARE FOR IT MUCH EITHER, EXCEPT IN "THAT'S LIFE"
die- li moli, intransitive ALSO 'KAMA MOLI' FOR THE EVENT ITSELF.
kill- li moli e (somthing), transitive
fight- utala
hunt- alasa
hit- ?? 'UTALA' AGAIN, OFFICIALLY ONE WANTS SOMETHING LIKE 'PANA E WAWA'
cut- li weka
split- li tu
stab- li pakala kepeken palisa
scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo HMMM! I GUESS TJHIS WORKS, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM OPTIMAL.
dig- li uta, li pali e uta, li pana e uta PROBABLY 'LUPA' RATHER THAN 'UTA'
swim- li tawa lon telo
fly (v.)- li tawa kepeken ilo waso WELL, NOT NECESSARILY, MAYBE JUST 'TAWA LON KON'
walk- li tawa OR 'TAWA NOKA' TO BE SPECIFIC
come- li kama
lie- li kama e sijelo lon ma 'OR WITH 'ANPA' 'KAMA SUPA' OR EVEN JUST 'SUPA'
sit- li kama e monsi lon ma AGAIN WITH 'ANPA'
stand- [i kama ala (not go anwhere), ??? (stand on two feet)] THE FIRST IS 'AWEN' SECOND IS 'KAMA SINPIN'
turn- ?? 'TAWA ANTE'?
fall- ?? ANPA
give- li pana
hold- li jo
squeeze- li jo kin kepeken luka WHY 'KIN'? PROBABLY 'JO WAWA' OR SOME SUCH
rub- ?? ?INDEED
wash- li telo
wipe- li telo kepeken len BUT WIPING NEED NOT BE WASHING, BACK TO,"RUB"
pull- ?? TAWA E
push- ?? KAMA E
throw- li weka
tie - li kama awen kepeken linja
sew- li pali kepeken linja len, li kama awen kepeken linja len,
count- li toki e nanpa NOT QUITE ENOUGH, BUT 'LI NANPA' WORKS
say- li toki
sing- li toki musi
play- li musi
float- li tawa sewi telo 'LON SUPA TELO'
flow- li tawa, li tawa sama telo
freeze- li lete, li lete pini 'LI KIWEN LETE'
swell- li pona e sijelo PONA? EDEMA IS GOOD? , 'KAMA SULI' 'SULI E'
sun- suno
moon- mun
star- suno pi ma ante 'MUN LILI' ACTUALLY
water- telo
rain- telo pi sewi laso, telo lili pi suli laso, telo oko pi jan sewi, telo jaki pi jan sewi POETIC THERE. 'KON TELO' OR 'TELO KON' 'TELO ANPA'
river- telo linja
lake- telo pi ma uta, telo tawa ala pi ma uta 'LUPA'? 'TELO SULI'
sea- telo mute, telo suli 'MUTE' SUSPECT, THOUGH ARGUABLE.
salt- ijo walo pi telo suli MAYBWE MORE SPECIFIC 'KIWEN WALO' OR 'KIWEN WALO LILI'
stone- kiwen, [li kiwen THE VERB MEANS "PETRIFY"
sand- kiwen lili lili 'KO KIWEN' OR 'KO MA'
dust- kiwen jaki lili lili AGAIN, 'KO' SEEMS CALLED FOR
earth- ma, ma suli
cloud- kon, kon telo, kon telo walo
fog- kon telo pi kule mun OR 'KON TELO ANPA'
sky- suli laso 'SEWI' 'SEWI KON' 'SEWI LASO'
wind- kon, kon tawa
snow- kiwen telo pi suli laso, kiwen pi telo jelo pi jan suli 'KO LETE' 'KON TELO WALO'
ice- kiwen telo OR, OF COURSE, 'TELO KIWEN'
smoke- kon pimeja, li moku e palisi moli ALSO 'KON SELI'
fire - seli, li seli
ashes- ilo pi kule mun pi seli moli AGAIN A WORD FOR 'KO' 'KO PI SELI PINI' AND THE LIKE.
burn- li pakala kepeken seli OR, INDEED, JUST 'PAKALA SELI'
road- nasin, [linja tawa -THIS IS MORE LIKE AN OSCILLOSCOPE.
mountain- ma neni OR 'NENA MA'
red- loje
green- laso jelo / jelo laso
yellow- jelo
white- walo
black- pimeja
night- tenpo pimeja, tenpo pi suno ala, tenpo mun
day- tenpo suno
year- tenpo pi suno sike ER! 'SIKE SUNO' (THE SUN IS ALAYS ROUND)
warm- li seli
cold- lape 'LETE'!
full- ??? PINI
new- sin
old- sin ala
good- pona
bad- ike
rotten- moku kepeken akesi mute lili lili JAKI
dirty- jaki
straight- ???, [unpa ante
round- sike
sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu MAYBE JUST 'TU' ALONE
dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu
smooth- sama lipu PROBABLY JUST 'LIPU'
wet- kepeken telo lon selo 'TELO'
dry- li jo ala e telo
correct- pona, li pona
near- lon ni '(LON) POKA'
far- lon ni ala 'WEKA'
right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani THIS IS ONE OF THE OLDEST PROBLEMS IN TP, WITH NOT FIXED SIOLUTION YET. i ADD YOURS
left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali
at- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NOT SO MUCH
in- lon (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NOT SO MUCH
with- kepeken (but varies depending on grammatical construction) FOR INSTRUMENTS, 'POKA' FOR ACCOMPANIEMENT (NOT SURE WHAT SWADESH MEANT BUT PROBABLY 'POKA')
and- en (but varies depending on grammatical construction) VERY MUCH
if- la (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NLY ONE POSSIBLE CONSTRUCTION
because- tan (but varies depending on grammatical construction) NOT SO MUCH
name- nimi, nimi ilo, nimi jan, nimi toki, etc.
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS
'lipu' in certain situations
seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin ? BOTH THESE SEEM TO MISS THE POINT. WHY 'PAN'? NOT SURE HOW TO GO THOUGH
kili kiwen ?
fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS
'ko sijelo pi awen wawa' or something, depending on context
feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.
maybe just 'lipu waso' ?
bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE
there was mention of a snake bite recently-- I think the best answer was 'moku lili' which needs improvement.
suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo WHY 'KIN'? WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPOSITE OF 'PANA' WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL HERE. [WHAT, NO R VERSION HERE?
again, depends on context, maybe something involving 'tawa insa'
salt- ijo walo pi telo suli MAYBWE MORE SPECIFIC 'KIWEN WALO' OR 'KIWEN WALO LILI'
we now have 'namako'
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
Yes, thanks. 'namako ko walo' for starters.jan Josan wrote:Good ideathin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS
'lipu' in certain situationsor 'kiwen kili'seed - unpa pi pan kasi, li pana e kasi sin ? BOTH THESE SEEM TO MISS THE POINT. WHY 'PAN'? NOT SURE HOW TO GO THOUGH
kili kiwen ?I don't get the 'awen wawa' (especially the 'wawa' part)fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS
'ko sijelo pi awen wawa' or something, depending on contextMore likely to be taken as "wings" How do we do scales for akesi? "hair of the ..."?feather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.
maybe just 'lipu waso' ?Yes, eating is not just mastication(and not at all for many animals) 'tu uta'?bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE
there was mention of a snake bite recently-- I think the best answer was 'moku lili' which needs improvement.Sounds promising, maybe with 'kon' somewhere too.suck- moku kin e kon, moku kin e telo WHY 'KIN'? WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPOSITE OF 'PANA' WHICH WOULD BE USEFUL HERE. [WHAT, NO R VERSION HERE?
again, depends on context, maybe something involving 'tawa insa'salt- ijo walo pi telo suli MAYBWE MORE SPECIFIC 'KIWEN WALO' OR 'KIWEN WALO LILI'
we now have 'namako'
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
If you need to distinguish between "length" and "width", I might say:long - linja mute (?) BETTER WITH 'SULI' AND THEN BETTER AS 'SULI LINJA'
wide - mute, lipu mute 'SULI' AGAIN, NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH FROM "LONG" AND "TALL"
short - lili
thin - linja lili PROBABLY NOT -- NOT CLEAR HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE DIMENSIONS
long - suli pi nasin linja
wide - suli pi nasin ante
short - lili pi nasin linja
thin - lili pi nasin ante
If you don't need to talk about width, then just "suli linja" is fine.
Something involving "ko"? If we had a way to say "fat", we would probably also have a way to say "oil". Since fat and oil are used for burning, maybe "ko pi pana seli" and "telo pi pana seli"?fat (n.) - moku pi wawa mute, ilo poka pi sijelo insa ? SEE ABOVE. HOW IS FAT A TOOL? MAYBE 'WAN POKA' BUT DOUBTFUL. NO SUGGESTIONS
feather - linja pi luka wasofeather- ilo tawa pi sijelo walo WELL, NOT JUST TRAVEL INSTRUMENTS, BUT HEATING, WATERPROOFING, ETC. PROBABLY SOMETHING INVOLVING 'LINJA' AND 'LIPU' BUT i DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO.
These all might benefit from the new word "kipisi".bite- li moku SOMETHING ABOUT TEETH, MAYBE
cut- li weka
stab- li pakala kepeken palisa
sharp- sama ilo sin pi kama tu MAYBE JUST 'TU' ALONE
dull- sama ilo pakala pi kama tu
bite - li kipisi kepeken uta
cut - li kipisi
stab - li kipisi kepeken palisa
sharp - ken kipisi
dull - ken ala kipisi
Maybe something involving "pilin" (in the sense of touch)?scratch- li pana e linja kepeken ilo HMMM! I GUESS TJHIS WORKS, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM OPTIMAL.
rub- ?? ?INDEED
scratch - pilin pakala linja lili e
rub - pilin wawa (mute) e
If wiping away dirt or sweat, maybe you could say something like "weka e jaki kepeken len", or "weka e telo lon lawa kepeken luka".wipe- li telo kepeken len BUT WIPING NEED NOT BE WASHING, BACK TO,"RUB"
But in general:
wipe - weka kepeken pilin
We were just talking about this in another thread. We suggested using "palisa" as an adjective. (non-canon, but useful.)straight- ???, [unpa ante
I asked this in another thread. I think "poka wawa" and "poka pilin" were the best suggestions.right- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan mani THIS IS ONE OF THE OLDEST PROBLEMS IN TP, WITH NOT FIXED SIOLUTION YET. i ADD YOURS
left- luka ante (if you can't tell anyhow), poka mi/poka sina (e.g. if in a car), nasin pi jan pali
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
By the way, the more I think about it, the more I think that "heavy" is best represented by wawa, rather than "suli" or "mute".
kiwen wawa -- heavy rock. (kiwen suli would be big rock. kiwen mute would be many rocks.)
telo wawa -- thick liquid. (telo suli doesn't seem right. telo mute would be much water.)
I think "heaviness" and "strength/force/power" are related. (A heavy rock has a strong gravitational force. A thick liquid is hard to stir, which is... frictional force or something. A powerful person "throws their weight around".) Since "wawa" means "strength", it would be nice if it also meant "heavy".
Unfortunately, jan wawa would be ambiguous, because it could mean strong person or heavy person. But I suspect that's not a big problem.
kiwen wawa -- heavy rock. (kiwen suli would be big rock. kiwen mute would be many rocks.)
telo wawa -- thick liquid. (telo suli doesn't seem right. telo mute would be much water.)
I think "heaviness" and "strength/force/power" are related. (A heavy rock has a strong gravitational force. A thick liquid is hard to stir, which is... frictional force or something. A powerful person "throws their weight around".) Since "wawa" means "strength", it would be nice if it also meant "heavy".
Unfortunately, jan wawa would be ambiguous, because it could mean strong person or heavy person. But I suspect that's not a big problem.
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
You may be on to something. I've been reading up on toki pona astronomy. Gravity almost certainly would be some variation of a "wawa" Also makes me wonder if metaphors should be informed by science, artistic concerns or what. If by science, then we'd expect basic compound phrases to map 1:1 to current ideas about physics, inertia, weight, gravitational force, the four fundamental forces, etc. Somewhere in the corpus there is a translation of Newton's three laws.janTe wrote:By the way, the more I think about it, the more I think that "heavy" is best represented by wawa, rather than "suli" or "mute".
...A heavy rock has a strong gravitational force...
Re: Looking for Swadesh list for toki pona
Michael Fridman: nasin tawa pi jan NutonjanMato wrote:Somewhere in the corpus there is a translation of Newton's three laws.