toki pi jan suli

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mije Wi
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

toki pi jan suli

Post by mije Wi »

tenpo pini la jan suli Pome li toki e ni. wile jan li sinpin kiwen tawa jan sewi. kute la jan lili li toki e ni. mi sona ala e ni. jan ken ala wile. jan Pome li toki e ni. pali suli li wile ala. ona li pali jan suli. pali suli li wile pi jan pi pana sina. sina tawa ike. wile sina li ike. sina weka e ale tan ni. sina utala ala tawa pali ike li utala ala wile jan sina ike.

jan sin li tawa jan suli ona. jan sin li toki e ni. sona ni li ike e mi. tenpo li seme tawa ni. mi sin e mi. jan suli li toki e ni. sina wile tenpo suno luka. jan sin li toki e ni. ona li mute anu ala. jan suli li toki e ni. sina wile tenpo suna luka ala. sina wile tenpo suno luka luka. jan sin li toki e ni. sina toki e ni tan seme. jan suli ki toki e ni. sina wile tenpo suno luka luka ala. sina wile tenpo suno mute. o tawa tomo sina. o lon pona. tenpo suli li tawa sina. jan sin li kin tawa tomo ona. tenpo mute pini la jan sin li tawa jan suli. jan suli li toki e ni. sina tawa mi tan seme. jan sin li toki e ni. mi lon tan ni. mi toki e pali ike mi. mi sin ala e mi tan ni. mi wile sona e tenpo. kama sin li sin ala li tawa. jan suli li toki e ni. sina poka ma pi jan sewi. o tawa tomo sina. o lon pona.

jan suli Antono li lon e ma pi jan ala. pilin ike li jo e ona. ona li toki tawa jan sewi. ona li lukin e ni. jan poka li pali mute ala li toki mute ala tawa jan sewi. jan suli li kute e ni. pali e ni la sina tawa ma sewi. jan poka li jan kin pi toki pi jan sewi. tenpo sin la jan Antono li pali e ni li tawa ma sewi.
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janKipo
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Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by janKipo »

Since I am not quite sure what is going on here, some of my remarks may be way out of line.
mije Wi wrote:tenpo pini la jan suli Pome li toki e ni. wile jan li sinpin kiwen tawa jan sewi.
If you mean the second sentence to be (part of) what Pome says, you should use : not . "Human will is a hard front (shield? obstacle -- a real guess?) for god" I don't see where this is going, so I don't have context yet.
kute la jan lili li toki e ni. mi sona ala e ni. jan LI ken ala wile.
Ditto on punctuation. I am assuming that both following sentences are what jan lili says, and the third is what the second says jan lili doesn't know. 'kute la' doesn't have a developed usage yet, but should mean some like "rumor has it," which doesn't seem to fit here. Maybe 'jan lili li kute e ni la ona li toki...'?
jan Pome li toki e ni. pali suli li wile ala. ona li pali (E?) jan suli. pali suli li wile pi jan pi pana sina. sina tawa ike. wile sina li ike. sina weka e ale tan ni. sina utala ala tawa pali ike li utala ala wile jan sina ike.
Whew! "A big job is not necessary/does not have desires. It is a big job for humans /(with the correction noted) makes big people. A big job is the desire of a person who gives you (maybe bore you). You go to bad/move badly. Your desire is bad. You throw everything away because (here would be : again) you do not fight for bad work and do not fight in the manner of bad your human will."

As you can see, I have missed a vital point that makes this all fall into something sensible. I'll skip the rest until I get some new view point.
mije Wi
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by mije Wi »

If you mean the second sentence to be (part of) what Pome says, you should use : not . "Human will is a hard front (shield? obstacle -- a real guess?) for god" I don't see where this is going, so I don't have context yet.
Human will is a bronze wall between him and God.
Ditto on punctuation. I am assuming that both following sentences are what jan lili says, and the third is what the second says jan lili doesn't know. 'kute la' doesn't have a developed usage yet, but should mean some like "rumor has it," which doesn't seem to fit here. Maybe 'jan lili li kute e ni la ona li toki...'?
kute la = "Having heard that"..? I should have splat the sentence in two.
jan lili li kute e ona la jan lili li toki e ni.
I don't know why the man can't will.
mi sona ala tan seme e ni. jan li ken ala wile. Is it ok now?
jan Pome li toki e ni. pali suli li wile ala. ona li pali (E?) jan suli. pali suli li wile pi jan pi pana sina. sina tawa ike. wile sina li ike. sina weka e ale tan ni. sina utala ala tawa pali ike li utala ala wile jan sina ike
jan Pome li toki e ni:
pali suli li wile ala; [The important job is not to will]
ona li pali jan suli; [This is the important human job]
pali suli li wile pi jan pi pana sina; [Ok, this was awkward... The important job is the will of your Creator]
sina tawa ike; [you are inclined to evil]
wile sina li ike; [your will is ill]
sina weka e ale tan ni:
sina utala ala *kepeken* pali ike
li utala ala *kepeken* wile jan sina ike [against your evil human will - wonder about were sina should stay]
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janKipo
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Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by janKipo »

mije Wi wrote:
If you mean the second sentence to be (part of) what Pome says, you should use : not . "Human will is a hard front (shield? obstacle -- a real guess?) for god" I don't see where this is going, so I don't have context yet.
Human will is a bronze wall between him and God.
"between" is hard; usually "x on one side of wall, y on the other or some such" but some one has used 'insa' and 'en': 'wile jan li sinpin kiwen insa jan en jan sewi'
Ditto on punctuation. I am assuming that both following sentences are what jan lili says, and the third is what the second says jan lili doesn't know. 'kute la' doesn't have a developed usage yet, but should mean some like "rumor has it," which doesn't seem to fit here. Maybe 'jan lili li kute e ni la ona li toki...'?
kute la = "Having heard that"..? I should have splat the sentence in two.
jan lili li kute e ona la jan lili li toki e ni.
I don't know why the man can't will.
mi sona ala tan seme e ni. jan li ken ala wile. Is it ok now?
The first cleaned up nicely. The second 'mi sona ala e ni: jan li ken ala wile tan seme' (the "why" is about not being able to will, not about knot knowing)
jan Pome li toki e ni. pali suli li wile ala. ona li pali (E?) jan suli. pali suli li wile pi jan pi pana sina. sina tawa ike. wile sina li ike. sina weka e ale tan ni. sina utala ala tawa pali ike li utala ala wile jan sina ike
jan Pome li toki e ni:
pali suli li wile ala; [The important job is not to will]
ona li pali jan suli; [This is the important human job]
pali suli li wile pi jan pi pana sina; [Ok, this was awkward... The important job is the will of your Creator]
Well, I don't think that the Creator's will can be a job exactly -- maybe understanding or, following it is. 'jan pi pali sina' is probably direct for Creator
sina tawa ike; [you are inclined to evil]
wile sina li ike; [your will is ill]
sina weka e ale tan ni:
sina utala ala *kepeken* pali ike
li utala ala *kepeken* wile jan sina ike [against your evil human will - wonder about were sina should stay]
I would vote for 'sina' at the end of the string, not in the middle (English prejudice?). "against," with 'utala' is just 'e;' do you mean that with 'pali ike' "bad work"?

Thanks, I see better what the track is here. I'll try some more tomorrow. What you did was mostly all right, just not what one expects in this context (maybe getting back to who Pome is would help).
mije Wi
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Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by mije Wi »

Ok. Do you find it unpolite if I will edit the first message?

jan Pome li jan pi kulupu ala.
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janKipo
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Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by janKipo »

Not at all, although -- to make the subsequent conversation intelligible -- it would be better to put the new version in a separate entry. jan Pome is unique, OK, but does he have a name that might be recognizable in English, say?
mije Wi
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by mije Wi »

mi nasa a. kin la nimi Pome li nimi Pomen.

The original name in greek is Poemen, which means Shepherd. How do you say shepherd in tp?
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janKipo
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Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by janKipo »

'jan pi lawa mani' is a good first guess. How do you say "Gnostic"? 'jan pi sona sewi' ? I have to say this is an interesting addition to the religion section.
mije Wi
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by mije Wi »

jan lawa soweli li pona anu ala? jan Janlawasoweli li toki e ni.

I would say Gnostic "jan pi sona nasa", but that's point of views. A more neutral would be "jan pi olin ala pi sijelo". Anyway I prefer proper names for religions. ken la nasin sewi li nasin pona tawa mi li nasin ike tawa sina.
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janKipo
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Re: toki pi jan suli

Post by janKipo »

'jan pi lawa soweli' is OK, since most soweli that have a human lawa are also mani, the other form is just slightly more precise (although it could be a cowherd as well as a shepherd).

Whew! I thought you were promoting Gnosticism rather than just citing it. I can't quite buy 'sona nasa,' as it is a bit judgmental, and 'jan pi olin ala sijelo' doesn't cover the lot (though it gets most of them; I forget where Poemen lies on that spectrum). It occurs to me, since I haven't looked at this stuff in a while, that this may not be the Gnostic shepherd but the Shepherd of Hermas, getting us back closer to orthodoxy. By and large, any nasin sewi is OK with me (some more than others, of course, since, as an Episcopalian, I have certain historic commitments).
Last edited by janKipo on Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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