Toki-Pona-speaking culture

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galactonerd

Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by galactonerd »

What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might belike? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle somewhatlike the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggeststhat there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guessthat it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack ofmetaphorical language.Any other ideas?jan Sosuwa
andrew49097

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by andrew49097 »

It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. Iimagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would havebeen on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sensethat it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thoughtthat sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group ortribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" atthe time being? Interesting thought.jan Anti (Andy)--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@...> wrote:>> What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be> like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestylesomewhat> like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests> that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess> that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of> metaphorical language.>> Any other ideas?>> jan Sosuwa>
John E Clifford

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by John E Clifford »

Somewhere back a little there is a sketch of a story about the beginning of tp among the survivors of a worldwide catastrophe, who coe together in the only good place left.----- Original Message ----From: andrew49097 <andrew49097@yahoo.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 9:30:51 PMSubject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking cultureIt's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese. Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at the time being? Interesting thought.jan Anti (Andy)--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ ...> wrote:>> What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle somewhat > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of > metaphorical language.> > Any other ideas?> > jan Sosuwa>
Sam Chapman

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by Sam Chapman »

I would have thought any tribe or primitive society would need far greater ability to describe plants and animals. I see it as being a "spiritual" language of formal languag not an everyday one.--- On Sun, 10/8/08, andrew49097 <andrew49097@yahoo.com> wrote:From: andrew49097 <andrew49097@yahoo.com>Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking cultureTo: tokipona@yahoogroups.comDate: Sunday, 10 August, 2008, 3:30 AMIt's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese. Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at the time being? Interesting thought.jan Anti (Andy)--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ ...> wrote:>> What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle somewhat > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of > metaphorical language.> > Any other ideas?> > jan Sosuwa> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
frpeterjackson

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by frpeterjackson »

tempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona likepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li kepeken enimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki ponais based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in tokipona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first orsecond person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't realizeit was adopted from Tok Pisin.)So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being moreisland-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of otherpidgins and creoles of a similar nature.jan Pita--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@...>wrote:>> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I> imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have> been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense> that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought> that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.> Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or> tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at> the time being? Interesting thought.>> jan Anti (Andy)>>>>> --- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@> wrote:> >> > What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be> > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle> somewhat> > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests> > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess> > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of> > metaphorical language.> >> > Any other ideas?> >> > jan Sosuwa> >>
Liogab11

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by Liogab11 »

I like the idea of Toki Pona being spoken on a deserted island. But I was just thinkingif it's also possible to imagine a group of forest people using the language. SometimesI imagine a castaway tribe speaking in Toki Pona. I can also imagine Toki Pona being spoken in a desolate Artic/Antartic region. mi taso li lonjan ala li lon poka mimun li pana e sunoona li suno e telo oko mi jan Pusa  --- On Fri, 15/8/08, frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@yahoo.com> wrote:From: frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@yahoo.com>Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking cultureTo: tokipona@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 9:41 PMtempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona likepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li kepeken enimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki ponais based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in tokipona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first orsecond person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't realizeit was adopted from Tok Pisin.)So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being moreisland-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of otherpidgins and creoles of a similar nature.jan Pita--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@ ...> wrote:>> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I > imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have > been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense > that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought > that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese. > Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or > tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at > the time being? Interesting thought.> > jan Anti (Andy)> > > > > --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ > wrote:> >> > What are yourthoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be > > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle > somewhat > > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests > > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess > > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of > > metaphorical language.> > > > Any other ideas?> > > > jan Sosuwa> >> New Email addresses available on Yahoo! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.Hurry before someone else does!
John E Clifford

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by John E Clifford »

I think the point of the remnants in the last good place was to explain the etymology of tp words.  Ignoring that, the desert isle makes sense -- except that such isolated (literally) languages tend to be much more complex that tp  (so do contact languages, come to that).----- Original Message ----From: Liogab11 <liogab11@yahoo.com>To: tokipona@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02:37 AMSubject: Re: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking cultureI like the idea of Toki Pona being spoken on a deserted island. But I was just thinkingif it's also possible to imagine a group of forest people using the language. SometimesI imagine a castaway tribe speaking in Toki Pona. I can also imagine Toki Pona being spoken in a desolate Artic/Antartic region. mi taso li lonjan ala li lon poka mimun li pana e sunoona li suno e telo oko mi jan Pusa  --- On Fri, 15/8/08, frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com> wrote:From: frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com>Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking cultureTo: tokipona@yahoogroup s.comDate: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 9:41 PMtempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona likepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li kepeken enimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki ponais based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in tokipona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first orsecond person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't realizeit was adopted from Tok Pisin.)So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being moreisland-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of otherpidgins and creoles of a similar nature.jan Pita--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@ ...> wrote:>> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I > imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have > been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense > that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought > that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese. > Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or > tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at > the time being? Interesting thought.> > jan Anti (Andy)> > > > > --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com,"galactonerd" <galactonerd@ > wrote:> >> > What are yourthoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be > > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle > somewhat > > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests > > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess > > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of > > metaphorical language.> > > > Any other ideas?> > > > jan Sosuwa> >> New Email addresses available on Yahoo! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.Hurry before someone else does!
andrew49097

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by andrew49097 »

It's just fun to speculate. Obviously, since Toki Pona is constructedit lacks certain things that a language of "evolution" would haveadapted. This keeps the language pure like toki pona is. It hasn'thad the time to become polluted. So, perhaps a group was plopped in adeserted place, and to establish common ground, toki pona arose as apidgin. Therefore toki pona would be a young, less complex language,as it is.-jan Anti (Andy)--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, John E Clifford <kali9putra@...>wrote:>> I think the point of the remnants in the last good place was toexplain the etymology of tp words. Ignoring that, the desert islemakes sense -- except that such isolated (literally) languages tendto be much more complex that tp (so do contact languages, come tothat).>>>> ----- Original Message ----> From: Liogab11 <liogab11@...>> To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02:37 AM> Subject: Re: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture>>> I like the idea of Toki Pona being spoken on a deserted island. ButI was just thinking> if it's also possible to imagine a group of forest people using thelanguage. Sometimes> I imagine a castaway tribe speaking in Toki Pona.>> I can also imagine Toki Pona being spoken in a desolateArtic/Antartic region.>> mi taso li lon> jan ala li lon poka mi> mun li pana e suno> ona li suno e telo oko mi>> jan Pusa>>>>> --- On Fri, 15/8/08, frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com>wrote:>> From: frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com>> Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture> To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com> Date: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 9:41 PM>>> tempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:> toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona li> kepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin likepeken e> nimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.>> tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.>> I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much tokipona> is based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in toki> pona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first or> second person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn'trealize> it was adopted from Tok Pisin.)>> So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being more> island-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of other> pidgins and creoles of a similar nature.>> jan Pita>> --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@ ...>> wrote:> >> > It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of adesert. I> > imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it wouldhave> > been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in thesense> > that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have justthought> > that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian orJapanese.> > Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knitgroup or> > tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "smallgroup" at> > the time being? Interesting thought.> >> > jan Anti (Andy)> >> >> >> >> > --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ >wrote:> > >> > > What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culturemight be> > > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle> > somewhat> > > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabularysuggests> > > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would alsoguess> > > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lackof> > > metaphorical language.> > >> > > Any other ideas?> > >> > > jan Sosuwa> > >> >>>>> ________________________________> New Email addresses available on Yahoo!> Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and@rocketmail.> Hurry before someone else does!>
galactonerd

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by galactonerd »

Well, my reasoning is that since there's only one word covering allliquids ("telo" instead of water, rain, ocean, etc.), it must be adesert, with the occasional oasis (hence the existence of theword "kala"--fish live in these waters); since there's only word forthe whole plant kingdom and one word for each class of animals, theremust not be a whole lot of animals or plants in that region, andthose that are there look pretty much alike (that is, all mammalslook alike, all reptiles look alike, etc.); since there are words forhot and cold, the desert they live in must get really hot during theday and really cold at night, and all they have for protection aretents called "tomo."Those are my thoughts on the matter, anyway.jan Sosuwa--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, Sam Chapman <sam_acw@...> wrote:>> I would have thought any tribe or primitive society would need fargreater ability to describe plants and animals. I see it as beinga "spiritual" language of formal languag not an everyday one.>> --- On Sun, 10/8/08, andrew49097 <andrew49097@...> wrote:> From: andrew49097 <andrew49097@...>> Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture> To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, 10 August, 2008, 3:30 AM>>>>>>>>>>>> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet oppositeof a desert. I>> imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have>> been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in thesense>> that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought>> that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian orJapanese.>> Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit groupor>> tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group"at>> the time being? Interesting thought.>>>> jan Anti (Andy)>>>> --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ ...>wrote:>> >>> > What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture mightbe>> > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle>> somewhat>> > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabularysuggests>> > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would alsoguess>> > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lackof>> > metaphorical language.>> >>> > Any other ideas?>> >>> > jan Sosuwa>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com>
Jim Henry

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Post by Jim Henry »

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:49 PM, galactonerd <galactonerd@yahoo.com> wrote:> Well, my reasoning is that since there's only one word covering all> liquids ("telo" instead of water, rain, ocean, etc.), it must be a> desert, with the occasional oasis (hence the existence of the> word "kala"--fish live in these waters); since there's only word for......> Those are my thoughts on the matter, anyway.pilin sina li pona tawa mi.--Jim Henryhttp://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/conlang/fluency ... tmlConlang fluency survey -- there's still time to participate beforeI analyze the results and write the article
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