Toki-Pona-speaking culture

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galactonerd

Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby galactonerd » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:11 pm


What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be
like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle somewhat
like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests
that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess
that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of
metaphorical language.

Any other ideas?

jan Sosuwa


andrew49097

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby andrew49097 » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:30 pm


It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I
imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have
been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense
that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought
that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.
Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or
tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at
the time being? Interesting thought.

jan Anti (Andy)




--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@...> wrote:
>
> What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be
> like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle
somewhat
> like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests
> that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess
> that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of
> metaphorical language.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> jan Sosuwa
>


John E Clifford

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby John E Clifford » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:03 pm

Somewhere back a little there is a sketch of a story about the beginning of tp among the survivors of a worldwide catastrophe, who coe together in the only good place left.

----- Original Message ----
From: andrew49097 <andrew49097@yahoo.com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 9:30:51 PM
Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I

imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have

been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense

that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought

that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.

Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or

tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at

the time being? Interesting thought.


jan Anti (Andy)


--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ ...> wrote:

>

> What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be

> like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle

somewhat

> like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests

> that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess

> that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of

> metaphorical language.

>

> Any other ideas?

>

> jan Sosuwa

>




Sam Chapman

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby Sam Chapman » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:18 am

I would have thought any tribe or primitive society would need far greater ability to describe plants and animals. I see it as being a "spiritual" language of formal languag not an everyday one.

--- On Sun, 10/8/08, andrew49097 <andrew49097@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: andrew49097 <andrew49097@yahoo.com>
Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 10 August, 2008, 3:30 AM



It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I

imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have

been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense

that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought

that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.

Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or

tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at

the time being? Interesting thought.



jan Anti (Andy)



--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ ...> wrote:

>

> What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be

> like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle

somewhat

> like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests

> that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess

> that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of

> metaphorical language.

>

> Any other ideas?

>

> jan Sosuwa

>





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frpeterjackson

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby frpeterjackson » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:41 am


tempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:
toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona li
kepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li kepeken e
nimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.

tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.

I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki pona
is based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in toki
pona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first or
second person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't realize
it was adopted from Tok Pisin.)

So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being more
island-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of other
pidgins and creoles of a similar nature.

jan Pita

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@...>
wrote:
>
> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I
> imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have
> been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense
> that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought
> that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.
> Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or
> tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at
> the time being? Interesting thought.
>
> jan Anti (Andy)
>
>
>
>
> --- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@> wrote:
> >
> > What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be
> > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle
> somewhat
> > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests
> > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess
> > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of
> > metaphorical language.
> >
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > jan Sosuwa
> >
>


Liogab11

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby Liogab11 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:02 am

I like the idea of Toki Pona being spoken on a deserted island. But I was just thinking

if it's also possible to imagine a group of forest people using the language. Sometimes

I imagine a castaway tribe speaking in Toki Pona.

 

I can also imagine Toki Pona being spoken in a desolate Artic/Antartic region.

 

mi taso li lon

jan ala li lon poka mi

mun li pana e suno

ona li suno e telo oko mi

 

jan Pusa

 

 



--- On Fri, 15/8/08, frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@yahoo.com>
Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 9:41 PM




tempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:
toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona li
kepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li kepeken e
nimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.

tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.

I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki pona
is based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in toki
pona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first or
second person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't realize
it was adopted from Tok Pisin.)

So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being more
island-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of other
pidgins and creoles of a similar nature.

jan Pita

--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@ ...>
wrote:
>
> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I
> imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have
> been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense
> that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought
> that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.
> Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or
> tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at
> the time being? Interesting thought.
>
> jan Anti (Andy)
>
>
>
>
> --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ > wrote:
> >
> > What are your
thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be
> > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle
> somewhat
> > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests
> > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess
> > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of
> > metaphorical language.
> >
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > jan Sosuwa
> >
>




New Email addresses available on Yahoo!

Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.

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John E Clifford

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby John E Clifford » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:37 am

I think the point of the remnants in the last good place was to explain the etymology of tp words.  Ignoring that, the desert isle makes sense -- except that such isolated (literally) languages tend to be much more complex that tp  (so do contact languages, come to that).

----- Original Message ----
From: Liogab11 <liogab11@yahoo.com>
To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02:37 AM
Subject: Re: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture



I like the idea of Toki Pona being spoken on a deserted island. But I was just thinking

if it's also possible to imagine a group of forest people using the language. Sometimes

I imagine a castaway tribe speaking in Toki Pona.

 

I can also imagine Toki Pona being spoken in a desolate Artic/Antartic region.

 

mi taso li lon

jan ala li lon poka mi

mun li pana e suno

ona li suno e telo oko mi

 

jan Pusa

 

 



--- On Fri, 15/8/08, frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture
To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 9:41 PM




tempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:
toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona li
kepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li kepeken e
nimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.

tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.

I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki pona
is based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in toki
pona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first or
second person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't realize
it was adopted from Tok Pisin.)

So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being more
island-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of other
pidgins and creoles of a similar nature.

jan Pita

--- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@ ...>
wrote:
>
> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a desert. I
> imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have
> been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the sense
> that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought
> that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or Japanese.
> Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group or
> tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group" at
> the time being? Interesting thought.
>
> jan Anti (Andy)
>
>
>
>
> --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com,
"galactonerd" <galactonerd@ > wrote:
> >
> > What are your
thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might be
> > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle
> somewhat
> > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary suggests
> > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also guess
> > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack of
> > metaphorical language.
> >
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > jan Sosuwa
> >
>




New Email addresses available on Yahoo!

Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.

Hurry before someone else does!





andrew49097

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby andrew49097 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:05 pm


It's just fun to speculate. Obviously, since Toki Pona is constructed
it lacks certain things that a language of "evolution" would have
adapted. This keeps the language pure like toki pona is. It hasn't
had the time to become polluted. So, perhaps a group was plopped in a
deserted place, and to establish common ground, toki pona arose as a
pidgin. Therefore toki pona would be a young, less complex language,
as it is.

-jan Anti (Andy)




--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, John E Clifford <kali9putra@...>
wrote:
>
> I think the point of the remnants in the last good place was to
explain the etymology of tp words. Ignoring that, the desert isle
makes sense -- except that such isolated (literally) languages tend
to be much more complex that tp (so do contact languages, come to
that).
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Liogab11 <liogab11@...>
> To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:02:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture
>
>
> I like the idea of Toki Pona being spoken on a deserted island. But
I was just thinking
> if it's also possible to imagine a group of forest people using the
language. Sometimes
> I imagine a castaway tribe speaking in Toki Pona.
>
> I can also imagine Toki Pona being spoken in a desolate
Artic/Antartic region.
>
> mi taso li lon
> jan ala li lon poka mi
> mun li pana e suno
> ona li suno e telo oko mi
>
> jan Pusa
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 15/8/08, frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> From: frpeterjackson <frpeterjackson@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture
> To: tokipona@yahoogroup s.com
> Date: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 9:41 PM
>
>
> tempo sunu pini la mi lukin e toki Tok Pisin li mi kama sona e ni:
> toki ni li sama mute poka toki pona. ijo nanpa wan la toki pona li
> kepeken e nimi "li". kepeken nasin sama la toki Tok Pisin li
kepeken e
> nimi "i". mi sona ala e ni: ni li kama tan toki Tok Pisin.
>
> tan ni la nasin pi toki pona li sama poka nasin pi jan Tok Pisin.
>
> I was recently looking at Tok Pisin, and I realized how much toki
pona
> is based on it. E.g., the use of a predicate marker ("li" in toki
> pona; "i" in Tok Pisin) after third person, but not after first or
> second person. (I always thought this was clever, but I didn't
realize
> it was adopted from Tok Pisin.)
>
> So it would make sense to imagine our "culture" as being more
> island-based, not just because of Tok Pisin, but because of other
> pidgins and creoles of a similar nature.
>
> jan Pita
>
> --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "andrew49097" <andrew49097@ ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite of a
desert. I
> > imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would
have
> > been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the
sense
> > that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just
thought
> > that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or
Japanese.
> > Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit
group or
> > tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small
group" at
> > the time being? Interesting thought.
> >
> > jan Anti (Andy)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ >
wrote:
> > >
> > > What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture
might be
> > > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle
> > somewhat
> > > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary
suggests
> > > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also
guess
> > > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack
of
> > > metaphorical language.
> > >
> > > Any other ideas?
> > >
> > > jan Sosuwa
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> New Email addresses available on Yahoo!
> Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and
@rocketmail.
> Hurry before someone else does!
>


galactonerd

Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby galactonerd » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:49 pm


Well, my reasoning is that since there's only one word covering all
liquids ("telo" instead of water, rain, ocean, etc.), it must be a
desert, with the occasional oasis (hence the existence of the
word "kala"--fish live in these waters); since there's only word for
the whole plant kingdom and one word for each class of animals, there
must not be a whole lot of animals or plants in that region, and
those that are there look pretty much alike (that is, all mammals
look alike, all reptiles look alike, etc.); since there are words for
hot and cold, the desert they live in must get really hot during the
day and really cold at night, and all they have for protection are
tents called "tomo."

Those are my thoughts on the matter, anyway.

jan Sosuwa

--- In tokipona@yahoogroups.com, Sam Chapman <sam_acw@...> wrote:
>
> I would have thought any tribe or primitive society would need far
greater ability to describe plants and animals. I see it as being
a "spiritual" language of formal languag not an everyday one.
>
> --- On Sun, 10/8/08, andrew49097 <andrew49097@...> wrote:
> From: andrew49097 <andrew49097@...>
> Subject: [tokipona] Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture
> To: tokipona@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, 10 August, 2008, 3:30 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's funny, I imagine something simular, yet opposite
of a desert. I
>
> imagine if toki pona were to have occurred naturally, it would have
>
> been on an isolated tropical island. Sort of like a desert in the
sense
>
> that it is isolated and such. Then again, I could have just thought
>
> that sense the language resembles something like Hawai'ian or
Japanese.
>
> Either way, toki pona would have been spoken by a close knit group
or
>
> tribe as you said. And, in fact isn't it spoken by a "small group"
at
>
> the time being? Interesting thought.
>
>
>
> jan Anti (Andy)
>
>
>
> --- In tokipona@yahoogroup s.com, "galactonerd" <galactonerd@ ...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > What are your thoughts on what a Toki-Pona-apeaking culture might
be
>
> > like? I imagine they would live in a desert, with a lifestyle
>
> somewhat
>
> > like the Kalahari bush tribes, because the small vocabulary
suggests
>
> > that there aren't a whole lot of things to name. I would also
guess
>
> > that it started out as some kind of creole, because of its lack
of
>
> > metaphorical language.
>
> >
>
> > Any other ideas?
>
> >
>
> > jan Sosuwa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>


Jim Henry

Re: Re: Toki-Pona-speaking culture

Postby Jim Henry » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:54 am


On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:49 PM, galactonerd <galactonerd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well, my reasoning is that since there's only one word covering all
> liquids ("telo" instead of water, rain, ocean, etc.), it must be a
> desert, with the occasional oasis (hence the existence of the
> word "kala"--fish live in these waters); since there's only word for
......
> Those are my thoughts on the matter, anyway.

pilin sina li pona tawa mi.

--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/conlang/fluency-survey.html
Conlang fluency survey -- there's still time to participate before
I analyze the results and write the article



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