To the Reader — Baudelaire

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
User avatar
jan wiko
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am
Location: ma Kanse

To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby jan wiko » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:06 am

I really enjoyed the last translation exercise and I want to keep improving.
So I thought about Beaudelaire's first poem. Here's the first step in translation?

tawa jan lukin
Sake Potelake

nasa en pakala en ike en awen
li lon kon mi li pali e sijelo mi.
mi pana e moku tawa toki mi pi pali ante pi pona
jan wile mani li pana e moku tawa pipi sama mi.

ike mi li awen. toki mi pi pali ante li pilin wawa ala.
jan li pana e mani mute tawa mi tan ni: mi toki e lon.
mi tawa kepeken pilin pona insa nasin pi ma telo.
mi toki e ni: telo oko mi li telo e pali ike mi.
jan Wiko

janKipo
Posts: 2972
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby janKipo » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:41 pm

Grammatically, not much to complain about, except
need a period at the end of the third line (I think). That also ends with a ‘pi’ followed by only one word, so needs either to drop the ‘pi’ or add a word.

As a translation, I am less clear (why I don’t do poetry). I get (being literal as usual, with flourishes where I see how they might work)

Craziness and destruction and evil and continuing
Are in my spirit and make my body.
I give food to my talk about doing differently (reforming?) “of good” fits in how?
Rich willful men (I think this is ‘jan pi wile mani’ “people who want money” but probably not greedy, just poor ’jan pi mani ala’) give food to my similar (to??) insects.

My evil continues. My talk of reformation feels weak (reading as ‘wawa ala pilin’).
People give me lots of money because I speak the truth.
I go using habitual internal good feelings of the swamp. ??
I say that my tears wash my evil deeds.

User avatar
jan wiko
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am
Location: ma Kanse

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby jan wiko » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:40 am

Your translation is not so far from the poem even though I have a lot to review.
Now that I think about it I haven't given the link to Beaudelaire's text, here it is: https://fleursdumal.org/poem/099 (French and English).
jan Wiko

User avatar
jan wiko
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am
Location: ma Kanse

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby jan wiko » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:20 pm

Hi, I had time to rework the translation, here is a suggestion.

nasa en pakala en ike en awen jo
li lon kon mi li pali e sijelo mi.
mi pana e moku tawa toki mi pi pali ante. ona li pona.
mi pali sama jan wile. ona li pana e moku tawa pipi.

ike mi li awen. wile mi pi pali ante li wawa ala.
jan li pana e mani mute tawa mi tawa ni: mi toki e lon.
mi tawa pona tawa nasin pi ma telo.
mi toki e ni: telo oko mi li telo e pali ike mi.
jan Wiko

janKipo
Posts: 2972
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby janKipo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:53 am

Smoother. I still haven’t checked the original, so here is what I get from this
“Craziness and disaster and evil and clutching
Are in my spirit and make my body.
I feed my tale of doing differently. It is good.
I act like willful men. They feed bugs.

My evil remains. My desire to act differently is weak.
People give me lots of money to speak the truth.
I go well to the path to the swamp.
I say that my tears wash my evil deeds."

User avatar
jan wiko
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am
Location: ma Kanse

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby jan wiko » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:38 am

The text becomes relatively close to the original but I can't translate the following expressions correctly.

And we feed our mild remorse,
mi pana e moku tawa toki mi pi pali ante. ona li pona. ?

Our sins are insistent, our repentings are limp;
ike mi li awen. wile mi pi pali ante li wawa ala. ?

And we gaily go once more on the muddy path
mi tawa pona tawa nasin pi ma telo. ?
jan Wiko

janKipo
Posts: 2972
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby janKipo » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:09 am

Whatever deficit there are seem to be mainly in the details of mood
“mild remorse” “limp repenting” “go gaily”. and the like.
Mild remorse would seem to involve feeling bad about what you have done -- though not very bad: ‘ike lili pilin pi pali ike’. or some such.
‘wawa ala’ is “weak”, but “limp” seems to imply ineffectual as well as not strong. maybe ‘kepeken ala’ or some such.
“gaily” probably involves ‘musi’. and ‘lon nasin’ (I don’t know how to distinguish a muddy road from a road to a swamp, alas.

Social note. The name ‘Wiko’ was used by an active contributor in the early days, who later dies (pu is dedicated to him). I am not sure what the proprieties are here, but it would be good to get some guidelines, since teh situatio -- at least of two people with the same tp name -- is sure to occur with increasing frequency (and may already be abroad).

User avatar
jan wiko
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am
Location: ma Kanse

Re: To the Reader — Baudelaire

Postby jan wiko » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:43 am

I didn't know about the contributor, I just transliterated my first name without further research.

Thank you again and I will try to improve the text with your feedback. In particular, your proposal for joyfulness is interesting. I also need to correct the term remorse and I can move on.
jan Wiko


Return to “kama sona toki”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron