tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

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Tokiponidistoj: Iuj homoj nepre volas fari ŝanĝojn por "ripari" Tokiponon. Jen ludejo por iliaj ideoj.
Tomaniki
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tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby Tomaniki » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:39 pm

I was inspired by this thread to create a unique calendar for toki pona. I enjoyed the idea of using animals and elements to form calendar names; however, why follow the Chinese convention when we have animal names of our own? You would have to write <<tenpo sike pi akesi suli seli>> to say simply "Year of the Fire Dragon." It seems too long and cluttered, when <<tenpo akesi>> alone could suffice.

We have seven animals, in order of evolution (roughly):
pipi - bug - p.*
kala - fish - l.*
kasi - plant - i.*
akesi - snake - a.*
waso - bird - w.*
soweli - beast - s.*
jan - man - j.*
*I added possible abbreviations that could be used.

We also have several "elements", alphabetically:
jaki - dirt - j.
ko - paste - k.
kon - air - o.
ma - earth - m.
mani - money - n.
seli - fire - l.
sona - wise - s.
suwi - sweet - i.
telo - water -t.
unpa - sex - p.
utala - war - u.
wawa - power - w.

This creates a combination of 84 years. (Instead of a few elements and many animals, I used many elements and few animals -- it minimizes the number of words needed.) If we start with 2001, the year when toki pona began, as Dirt Bug Time (tenpo pipi jaki, or tenpo pj.), then that would make 2011, Paste Plant Time (tenpo kasi ko, or tenpo ik.). I was born in 1993, or War Man Time (tenpo jan utala, or tenpo ju.).

As for the seasons, we could use colors...
jelo - j. - summer (yellow for the sun) = Jun/Jul/Aug
loje - l. - fall (red for autumn leaves) = Sep/Oct/Nov
walo - w. - winter (white for snow) = Dec/Jan/Feb
laso - s. - spring (blue for water / green for plants) = Mar/Apr/May

...and then we could count the three months:
mun pi nanpa wan pi tenpo pipi jaki loje (September 2011)
Literally, first month in Dirt Bug Time autumn

mun pi nanpa tu pi tenpo pipi jaki loje (October 2011)
Literally, second month in Dirt Bug Time autumn

mun pi nanpa tu wan pi tenpo pipi jaki loje (November 2011)
Literally, third month in Dirt Bug Time autumn

If the year is assumed, you could simply state "mun pi nanpa wan pi tenpo loje" = September. We could also abbreviate it as "mun pnW. pi tl." (Sept.) or "mun pnW. pi tpjl." (Sept. 2011). Getting rid of the pis, nanpas, and tenpos are also possible if we understand that they are calendar names in context: mun wan loje / mWl. (September)

As for the days, counting to 31 could work (mute luke luke wan or MLLW), but I will leave that open for now. Perhaps we could count by weeks ("Monday of the third week") but that would require some maneuvering. For now, how do you feel about this month/year system. We can work on more of toki pona calendars after we establish year and month names.

To get a feel of how this calendar would work, here are some significant historical dates and how they'd be written:

Christmas - December 25
suno mute luko pi mun tu wan walo (sML mTWw.)

America's Independence - July 4, 1776
suno tu tu pi mun wan jan mani jelo (sTT mWjnj.)

End year of WWII - 1945
tenpo pipi seli (tpl.)

If we needed to clarify that 1776 were not actually 1944 nor 2028 (all Money Man Times, if my math is right) then perhaps we could start counting each rotation of 84 years. There is still a lot of work to do, but I feel this is a good blueprint to start with.

janSilipu
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby janSilipu » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:08 pm

Happy uudz kale katunob! Not that it matters, but kasi is not an animal though mani is. And what makes the list given be elements when kiwen is not? I gather the critters click every year and the elements every seven. There are any number of tricks to get this more function ( the distant date problem) and to get days and weekdays in place. Do you want to just copy our calendar, or set up a new, "rational" one,, with all 30-day months or all 28 day ones?

janMato
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby janMato » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:35 pm

I didn't read the details too closely, but I like the idea of a prestige calendar, like a prestige script, it would be something to use occasionally to show off, but not something that is expected to be used if the calendar/date isn't the focus of the message.

That said, what makes the toki pona calendar a pain in things like wikia (e.g. tenpo mun pi nanpa luka wan 16, 2011 ) is the reliance on numbers to express the time. Cumbersome.

Mako
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby Mako » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:45 am

tenpo mun pi nanpa tu pi sike suno pi waso sona jelo la meli mama li pana e mi. In the second month of the year of the Yellow Wisdom Bird my mother bore me. jan Tomaniki o! ni li pona mute tawa mi.

jan Akesimun
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby jan Akesimun » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:18 am

toki! I've been messing around with this calendar today. It seems pretty good, but a few of the examples are wrong. Counting from 2001 as tenpo pi pipi jaki, 2011 is tenpo pi akesi ko (ak.), 1776 is.. something (I'm not going back that far), 1945 is pipi mani, and both 1944 and 2028 is tenpo pi jan ma. I just point them out because they made it a little harder to figure out how the system works. But yeah, it definitely deserves some discussion and some polishing. :)

(jan Silipu o. Thanks for pointing out the rotation patterns. I never would have figured them out on my own.)
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janSilipu
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby janSilipu » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:25 pm

My first ever term paper was on the Mayan calendar and it has stuck with me. We could fairly easily implement more of that mechanism to cover longer stretches of time, but I'm not a fan of that kind of tinkering (though most epigones find it irresistible).

Mako
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby Mako » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:25 am

jan Akesimun wrote:toki! I've been messing around with this calendar today. It seems pretty good, but a few of the examples are wrong. Counting from 2001 as tenpo pi pipi jaki, 2011 is tenpo pi akesi ko (ak.), 1776 is.. something (I'm not going back that far), 1945 is pipi mani, and both 1944 and 2028 is tenpo pi jan ma. I just point them out because they made it a little harder to figure out how the system works. But yeah, it definitely deserves some discussion and some polishing. :)

(jan Silipu o. Thanks for pointing out the rotation patterns. I never would have figured them out on my own.)


Are you sure, jan Akesimun? Starting with 2001 as pipi jaki, I get:
2001 pipi jaki
2002 kala ko
2003 kasi kon
2004 akesi ma
2005 waso mani
2006 soweli seli
2007 jan sona
2008 pipi suwi
2009 kala telo
2010 kasi utala
2011 akesi wawa
2012 waso jaki
After 2012, of course, we'll all be dead. But I want to sort this out so that I can write my New Year's Toki Pona speech "properly".

jan Akesimun
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby jan Akesimun » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:10 am

Hm.. It depends on if the modifier changes every year or every seven.
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Tomaniki
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Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby Tomaniki » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:05 pm

Mako wrote:After 2012, of course, we'll all be dead. But I want to sort this out so that I can write my New Year's Toki Pona speech "properly".


Speaking of "New Year's", would this calendary necessarily cycle every January first? Looking at it again, it would make more sense to start it on a new season. Otherwise you have this problem:

December 2011 - mun pi nanpa wan pi tenpo akesi wawa walo - First Month of the White Snake of Power
January 2012 - mun pi nanpa tu pi tenpo waso jaki walo - Second Month of the White Bird of Filth
February 2012 - mun pi nanpa tu wan pi tenpo waso jaki walo - Third Month of the White Bird of Filth
March 2012 - mun pi nanpa wan pi tenpo waso jaki loje - First Month of the Green Bird of Filth
December 2012 - mun pi nanpa wan pi tenpo waso jaki walo - First Month of the White Bird of Filth

As you see, the first month of winter is December. So each year, you would begin with the second walo month followed by the third walo month, and not until the end of the year would you reach the first walo month. It might make more sense that March be the beginning of the year (spring being rebirth) and we consider January and February 2012 to still be part of the Year of the Power Snake. I'm sorry, that makes your festivities happen a couple months later, but it seems more reasonable. Also, calculating anyone's birthday in January or February will be made a tad more difficult.

Tomaniki
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Location: ma Mewika

Re: tenpo sitelen Tomaniki (Dominick's Calendar)

Postby Tomaniki » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:17 pm

jan Akesimun wrote:Hm.. It depends on if the modifier changes every year or every seven.

Hmm... I think my original intent was to change every seven years, but either way works. Changing both gives it a sense of randomness and mystery, while changing just one seems to be more pragmatic and systemic. I don't know which is better for this calendar. The only problem I see with changing both, is that some years might never coincide. I'm not sure, I have not yet done the math.


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