Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

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janAetherStar
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Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby janAetherStar » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:25 am

(toki Inli anpa li ante lili tawa toki pona ni.)
toki a! ni li pilin suli sin. mi ken ala pali e ona lon tenpo ni. taso mi wile e ni: jan mute li wile pali e ona la, ona li ken kama. pilin sin mi li ni: jan mute pi toki pona li pali e kulupu suli pali. ona li pali e lipu mute pi toki pona, li esun e lipu mute ni. kulupu li kepeken e mani kepeken nasin ni: kulupu li kama jo e pu e lipu ante pi toki pona li pana e ona tawa tomo lipu en jan sin pi toki pona. (tan ni la lipu ni pi toki pona li ken kepeken e toki pona en toki ante.) kepeken nasin ni la kulupu pali pi toki pona li ken pali e ijo ni tu: ona li ken pali e toki musi mute e sitelen mute pi toki pona, li ken pana e sona pi toki pona tawa jan mute ante.
ken la ni li nasa. taso ken la ni li ken lon. sina pilin e seme tawa ni? :)
_________
(I think this'll sound weird if it's a direct translation, so please consider this different to the Toki Pona above.)
Hiya! I have a new idea. I can't really make it at the minute but if some of you guys want to try, I hope that it goes really well! The idea is that a group of us form a TP charity trust (just a not-for-profit organization, really). The main role of this group would be to make new books in and about tp in various languages (some bi-lingual in an attempt to attract new learners) and sell them, then use the money to buy pu and their own books off whatever platform is in use and distribute them for free in libraries that will accept them (particularly school libraries where groups can take root) and among new learners (and probs have plenty of competitions to get books too). What do you think of this? It could be considered crazy, but it could work! :)
__________
ni li ijo kama la ken la ni kin li ken kama (toki Inli taso):
Here are some more ideas, if this ever comes about:

-A competition for short stories/poems - the winner gets a particular book, and the work in the competition is (legally) made into a sellable book of its own
-Artists could contribute to the making of picture books, similar to jan Same's awesome "Elephant in the room" story
-Or, as above, comics!
-With Sonja's permission, pu could be translated into multiple other languages (including Esperanto of course :D ) and distributed in areas that speak those languages
-Indie games could be created, or there could be a translation team that takes existing games and contacts developers and translates their games for free (or, if at a cost, the cost goes back to the trust)
-The trust could support the use of TP in other books/stories (as we have seen in that sci-fi novel that popped up a while ago, and that cute tv show)
-Not just books, but songs could be shared around/written, too!
-Eventually, maybe short movies and animations could be made in toki pona :)


sa!mla (suli a! mi lukin ala): kulupu sin li ken pali e ijo mute pi toki pona li ken esun e ijo ni li ken pana e pu e ijo ni tawa tomo lipu en jan sin en ijo ante, kepeken mani pi tan esun. sina pilin e seme tawa ni?
TL;DR: A group for making tp content, selling it, and using the money to buy pu and their stuff and distribute it to libraries and newcomers etc. What do you think?
ale li pona. :)
sina o sona e ni.

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:43 am

janAetherStar wrote: A group for making tp content, selling it, and using the money to buy pu and their stuff and distribute it to libraries and newcomers etc. What do you think?


jan "AetherStar" o, toki!

I think the idea of making Toki Pona content is good. But I don't belief that you can't sell it very good. And why you would like to buy "pu"? There are free online lessons. In my opinion it is cheaper to promote the URLs and/or print these lessons and distribute it to libraries and newcomers.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby janKipo » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:07 pm

As for content, all the tp there is up to 2009 is in the corpus at tokipona.net and just needs editing and rearranging to make books of all sorts. I have much of the material since 2009 (Live Journal, G+. toki lili, etc. and Facebook since mid 2015) stored away but I don't know how to get it into an appropriate form on the net. This includes addresses for most Youtube items and assorted other loose pieces: word lists, fonts, textbooks, etc. (I haven't found the old word lists yet, though). If you can get a group interested, I would welcome their help in plowing through the remaining backlog of Facebook and other sources and organizing the whole. Of course, original works are welcome, too, but I like the idea of getting the base firm (if for no other reason than having to go through the same half dozen points every newby cycle).

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janAetherStar
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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby janAetherStar » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:26 pm

jan Lope o:
I guess you're right about distributing free lessons and links (I used to advertise tp with project wonderful sometimes, hehe), but I will say that pu has been useful for some people who find the use of it very easy and quick, v.s. something lengthier. It also comes in book format, v.s. something that would have to be bound manually after printing (and the printing/binding cost might be nearly as much, and I doubt libraries would take those sorts of "books". Though printing a series of mini-zines about tp and putting them places couldn't hurt.) Keep in mind it's not just about buying pu but buying the created content and sharing that around too, hence the whole bilingual book idea (inspired by Star in a Night Sky and a Chinese/English children's book I saw once). I agree that stuff might not sell well, but the idea rests on gradual growth and increases in numbers, not just an immediate "boom" effect. The main aim is also to give people an excuse to make sellable content, not just post a story here and there and say we're all done - a reason for people to get inspired to take on larger/more detailed projects. I'm thinking along the lines of that tp book on Lulu.com that happened once, but was deleted. It'd be a fun thing to make happen in any case - even if it were just a group and not a recognized charity. :)

jan Kipo o:
That sounds freaking awesome, and I see what you mean about having a strong initial foundation, but wouldn't we need to get the legal permission of the original authors before selling anything? It might be cumbersome, but maybe there could be an interview process for new people in the group if it were to be set up. It might involve a personal assessment of one's ability and standing in the community, a paragraph on when/why they started learning, a copy of a previous translation or original work, and a brief test (highlighting newbie grammar mistakes and trickier ones, translating sentences, etc...). (I don't mean this in an elitist sense, just to filter out people who know what they're doing and have seen tp go through some changes vs people who are still getting to grips with tp thought processes and grammatical details.) The group could be maybe 10-15 people at the start, then we'll see who is capable of taking a leading role long-term. These people can recruit newcomers that have certain roles, but still be under the same main group and co-operate internally. How does this sound? :) I'd have to hunt down someone to do it all though, since I have the time to type ideas and translate/create the odd thing but not much else at the minute.
ale li pona. :)
sina o sona e ni.

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby jan_Lope » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:03 am

janAetherStar wrote:jan Lope o:
I guess you're right about distributing free lessons and links (I used to advertise tp with project wonderful sometimes, hehe), but I will say that pu has been useful for some people who find the use of it very easy and quick, v.s. something lengthier. It also comes in book format, v.s. something that would have to be bound manually after printing (and the printing/binding cost might be nearly as much, and I doubt libraries would take those sorts of "books". Though printing a series of mini-zines about tp and putting them places couldn't hurt.) Keep in mind it's not just about buying pu but buying the created content and sharing that around too, hence the whole bilingual book idea (inspired by Star in a Night Sky and a Chinese/English children's book I saw once). I agree that stuff might not sell well, but the idea rests on gradual growth and increases in numbers, not just an immediate "boom" effect. The main aim is also to give people an excuse to make sellable content, not just post a story here and there and say we're all done - a reason for people to get inspired to take on larger/more detailed projects. I'm thinking along the lines of that tp book on Lulu.com that happened once, but was deleted. It'd be a fun thing to make happen in any case - even if it were just a group and not a recognized charity. :)


jan AetherStar o, toki!

I think these are different things: To promote "pu" and collect Toki Pona content.
"pu" has a ISBN number (0978292308) and you can rent it in big libraries. I think it is not necessary to buy it and give it to libraries. Better is it to make advertising for it.
For collecting content we can use a online portal (wiki) with functions for comment and rating the texts. This is necessary because you can find a lot of texts with wrong grammar (slang). The software mediawiki supports the PDF export. With this function you can make booklets with your favourite texts.

pona!
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby janKipo » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:00 am

Just to note that Lope's slang is, in many cases, standard tp of several years' standing.

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janAetherStar
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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby janAetherStar » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:44 pm

jan Lope o, that sounds like an idea I had once before of a sort of "tp hub" where you add texts, videos, links to texts and videos, etc etc, and give people a way to comment on and rate them. Similar idea and it would help a ton with the creation process of books, but it's not the idea to just compile content. The idea of it being a group means everyone would have stated that their work can be used in books that sell and make money (that money of which gets used by the group to purchase and spread more books and advertise tp etc etc), which would require a different set of legal rules than it just be a place for people to post stuff anywhere they want.
However, I like your idea better now that I think about it more (especially if there were a button you could press to just print a certain text or group of texts in a book-ish format), and I guess if there was a donation program to fund advertisements for tp (or just run the server) for people who like that kind of an idea, that could solve both ideas.
ale li pona. :)
sina o sona e ni.

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby jan_Lope » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:09 am

janAetherStar wrote:jan Lope o, that sounds like an idea I had once before of a sort of "tp hub" where you add texts, videos, links to texts and videos, etc etc, and give people a way to comment on and rate them. Similar idea and it would help a ton with the creation process of books, but it's not the idea to just compile content. The idea of it being a group means everyone would have stated that their work can be used in books that sell and make money (that money of which gets used by the group to purchase and spread more books and advertise tp etc etc), which would require a different set of legal rules than it just be a place for people to post stuff anywhere they want.
However, I like your idea better now that I think about it more (especially if there were a button you could press to just print a certain text or group of texts in a book-ish format), and I guess if there was a donation program to fund advertisements for tp (or just run the server) for people who like that kind of an idea, that could solve both ideas.


jan "AetherStar"" o, toki.

Your idea to build a group (social club) with rules for the members. Maybe this could work. In Germany we have many social clubs (Vereine), but I don't like it. I think it is easier to make a website to collect content. The only thing is that the writers have to put the texts under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license (see Wikipedia).

Maybe you ask: How we can sell it because everybody can download it?
I wrote a book with a friend and we've self-published on http://www.bod.de. But we were to lazy to make advertising for it and we've decided to put it under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license and show the whole content in a wiki. My wife spoke to me: "You can't sell this now!" But we 've sell a lot of books after it. To see the whole content is the best advertising!
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby jan kuto » Fri May 13, 2016 4:51 pm

From a complete beginner the group/charitable trust, sounds like a great idea. And to echo the last post, i think having all the content under a Creative Commons, attribution-share alike license is all important to spread tokipona.
( i am using online resources to learn tokipona but can see myself buying pu :) one day, and would consider buying other works in tp, or about it also)
Also i feel having audio files, the alphabet/words/basic phrases/sentences/poems/songs/sayings... (all tp originals, not to mention translations/interpretations of non-tp material aswell maybe) released under a Creative Commons attribution-share alike license-- would greatly help.



Tokipona.net is owned by jan Mato and .org and .com (which redirects to tokipona.org) are both owned by jan Sonja.
Have you considered contacting jan Mato or jan Sonja? Maybe the group could share content with one of those domains, a subdomain with a group wiki etc?

Or pick a new domain name and get hosting. Any ideas on a name? :)

Having a tp resource owned by a group, rather than any one individual does sound like a good idea.

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Re: Toki Pona charity trust (idea) - kulupu pali pi toki pona (pilin)

Postby janKipo » Fri May 13, 2016 6:13 pm

In a minor way, tomolipu.blogspot.com is moving in that direction. There are two texts up and half a dozen more in the pipeline and yet more in the reservoir. These are gathered from open sources. The other thing, that is not there but is in the works is a list, with urls up, of all the video and sound offerings -- and maybe the dozen or more textbooks in several languages.


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