tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

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Jan kawe
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tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby Jan kawe » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:14 am

Hello all! Firstly, I'd like to ask if my subject "tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona" is correct or if there is another way to say that that's simpler.

Secondly, I just wanted to introduce myself. mi jan Kawe. mi lon ma Mewika. mi toki tawa jan pona mi e ni: toki pona li pona tawa mi. tenpo ni la ona li kama sona e toki pona poka mi.

I just started learning about 2 days ago. I've got all the vocabulary down but I'm trying make that jump to sentence construction and comprehension. Please let me know if any of the TP text makes any sense and where I've got problems. Thank you all!

jan Kawe

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jan Pinsen
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Re: tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby jan Pinsen » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:26 am

toki! kama pona e toki pona.

I think the subject is correct, but you can more easily just say "mi open kama sona e toki pona".

mi jan Pinsen, li lon ma Netelan. tenpo ni la, mi toki kepeken toki pona pi mute ala tan ni: mi kama sona e toki Epelanto. taso, toki pona li pona tawa mi kin.
I am Vincent, I'm from the Netherlands. Currently I speak Toki Pona very little because I am learning Esperanto. However, I too like Toki Pona.

mi kin li pana tawa jan ante e ni: ona li wile kama sona e toki pona. jan ante ni li mama meli mi. taso, tenpo ni la, ona kin li kama sona e toki Epelanto. ona li pilin e ni: toki pona li pona ala. toki Epelanto li pona mute :)
I also caused someone else to want to learn Toki Pona. This someone else was my mother. However, at the moment, she is also learning Esperanto. She feels Toki Pona is not easy. Esperanto is very easy :)

I think your TP text looks rather good, and I didn't see any actual mistakes... but it's possible that I'm a bit out of practice, so I would hold out for some other people's opinions.

janKipo
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Re: tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby janKipo » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:02 pm

mi pilin sama jan Pinsen. 'mi open kama sona e toki pona' kin li pona.
To both of you, prepositional phrases come after the direct object, regardless of resulting messiness. So 'mi toki e ni tawa jan pona mi:', 'mi kin li pana e ni tawa jan ante:'
jan Pinsen o, I am unsure about some of your 'kin's (a word that gives at least Americans a lot of trouble): do you mean that there is someone else getting someone else to be interested in tp (what you wrote) or that your evangelism is in addition to tour learning tp and Eo ('mi pana kin')?
maybe 'toki pona pi lili mute'
'pana' doesn't seem to be a common word for cause and here sounds a bit like hypnotism, but seems to work.

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jan Pinsen
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Re: tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby jan Pinsen » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:11 am

Ah, right, I remember now, about prepositional phrases after the direct object. I actually started out doing that, finding it a very pleasant construction (kind of remembering the 'ni' that introduces another phrase/proposition during an intervening phrase), but I guess that's something I forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

I meant it the way you said I wrote it: in addition to OP, I too evangelized. "Mi kin li pana", rather than "Mi pana kin". Incidentally, I'm from the Netherlands, but being mostly fluent in English I suppose it's not unthinkable that I might be faced with problems similar to those Americans encounter. (Oh, I see now that I already wrote that in my previous message... that I'm from NL, that is.)

What was the meaning of "toki pona pi lili mute"? I can't find the context of it in the earlier messages.

Do you have a better way to say "cause"? I think I've only used "pana" for it, before.

janKipo
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Re: tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby janKipo » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:19 pm

It's easy to forget about prep last when it cuts off the 'ni'. We all do it occasionally.
So OP evangelized for tp, while preferring Eo?
'toki pona pi lili mute' means "very little tp", a proposed alternative to 'toki pona pi mute ala'.
I think 'kama' gets used for "cause" more than 'pana', and, of course, causative verbs when applicable (more often than might appear, but there is controversy about the exact grammar, the best guess in the present case being 'mi kama e jan ante sona e toki pona' with obvious problems, as has the alternative 'mi kama sona e toki pona e jan ante').

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jan Pinsen
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Re: tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby jan Pinsen » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:36 am

I don't think OP mentioned Esperanto; I was just saying, or, well, trying to say, how I evangelized tp to my mother, who liked it but thought it was very difficult, and she thought Esperanto was easy. (In other words, I was using another sense of "pona". See my included English translation.)

Ah, I see what you mean now. Yes, that does sound better, probably.

"kama" makes sense there; I do like the alternative you gave at the end. I see the problems with it though, what with the double "e" and all.

janKipo
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Re: tenpo pini lili la mi open e ni: mi kama sona e toki pona

Postby janKipo » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:18 pm

We always talk about using a few commas to help with some parsing problems, like the double 'e' or 'ante sona' (and 'sitelen tawa' in the paradigm horror -- so before every final prep phrase).
The point about 'kin' is that it has two roles, either emphasis/contrast or addition. So ' mi kin li pana' means either "I also sent" (or whatever), suggesting someone else has already been describe as panaing or "*I* sent" suggesting either an actual contrast or an implicit one with someone else having panaed.
Neither of these seemed to fit what you had said, so I though what you meant was that you had gotten someone else to learn tp, *in addition to * learning it your self.


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