mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

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Tomaniki
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Location: ma Mewika

mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby Tomaniki » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:26 pm

kulupu pi toki pona o, toki! mi sin mute mute towa toki pona. ken la sina lukin e ni tan pali mi (anu pakala mi) pi lawa nimi ona. o pona e pakala mi lon toki mi. mi wile pona ali ni: mi ken. sin la mi tawa seme tawa ni: mi sona sin li toki sin e toki pona? sona ali li pona tawa mi. pona!

Hello, Tokiponans! I am extremely new to Toki Pona, as you can probably tell by my use (or misuse) of its grammar. Please, correct me where I falter. I want to improve as best I can. Also, where should I go to practice speaking Toki Pona? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks!

janMato
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Re: mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby janMato » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:44 pm

Tamenik wrote:kulupu pi toki pona o, toki! mi sin mute mute tawa toki pona. ken la sina lukin e ni tan pali mi (anu pakala mi) pi lawa nimi ona. o pona e pakala mi lon toki mi. mi wile pona ali ni: mi ken. sin la mi tawa seme tawa ni: mi sona sin li toki sin e toki pona? sona ali li pona tawa mi. pona![/i]


kama pona kin! Welcome.

I think I'm the only one that thinks so, but reduplicated adjectives require a pi and the repeated word modifies the previous adjective. We don't have any evidence about what reduplication means, but pi phrases are well understood. Reduplication is not productive in toki pona for any systematic purpose. So:

mi sin pi mute mute. I'm really new.
mi sin pi mute lili. I'm kind of new.
mi sin pi lili mute. I'm not really new at all.

Also, kin the word that gives a phrase an emphatic sense and is always correct-- no controversy.

ken la sina lukin e ni tan pali mi (anu pakala mi) pi lawa nimi ona.

"maybe you see this from my work or mistakes of it's head name."
I'm not following you here, even after reading the English.

lon sitelen mi is better than lon toki mi, since words are physically on a page, but speech kind of an abstract place.

Currently active places for using tp in a sort of conversational way:
2nd life
irq (especially if jan Kute is there)
twitter -check out the account of @janMato
tokilili - requires manual approval of accounts now, but 100% of the users there are there to use toki pona.

You can find the links at my fan website: http://tokipona.net/tp/ look for external resources.

Tomaniki
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: ma Mewika

Re: mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby Tomaniki » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:42 pm

janMato wrote:kama pona kin! Welcome.

jan Mato o, pona!

janMato wrote:I think I'm the only one that thinks so, but reduplicated adjectives require a pi and the repeated word modifies the previous adjective. We don't have any evidence about what reduplication means, but pi phrases are well understood. Reduplication is not productive in toki pona for any systematic purpose. So:

mi sin pi mute mute. I'm really new.
mi sin pi mute lili. I'm kind of new.
mi sin pi lili mute. I'm not really new at all.

Also, kin the word that gives a phrase an emphatic sense and is always correct-- no controversy.

Thanks kin for the explanation. Your examples make sense to me now. I will try to keep this in mind when I make emphatic statements in the future. Thank you.

janMato wrote:
ken la sina lukin e ni tan pali mi (anu pakala mi) pi lawa nimi ona.

"maybe you see this from my work or mistakes of it's head name."
I'm not following you here, even after reading the English.

Ironically enough, I was trying to say that bit about "...as you can probably tell by my use (or misuse) of its grammar." I had difficulties putting that into Toki Pona terms, as evidenced by my serious pakala here.

janMato wrote:Currently active places for using tp in a sort of conversational way:
2nd life
irq (especially if jan Kute is there)
twitter -check out the account of @janMato
tokilili - requires manual approval of accounts now, but 100% of the users there are there to use toki pona.

You can find the links at my fan website: http://tokipona.net/tp/ look for external resources.

Again, thanks so much. These sources seem very helpful, and I may revisit them soon, once I feel a little bit more comfortable with the language. Thanks for the warm welcome and all the great help!

janKipo
Posts: 2860
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby janKipo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:54 am

'lawa nimi' is not too bad for grammar: "rules for word". We need some established tp terminology for linguistics since so much of our talk is about tp and it would be nice to do it in tp.

Tomaniki
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: ma Mewika

Re: mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby Tomaniki » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:17 pm

janKipo wrote:'lawa nimi' is not too bad for grammar: "rules for word". We need some established tp terminology for linguistics since so much of our talk is about tp and it would be nice to do it in tp.


Mistakenly thinking lawa nimi was widespread, I had gotten the term from here. Now I guess this blog is unofficial, given both of you were surprised at this newly constructed compound noun.

janMato
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
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Re: mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby janMato » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:01 pm

If I had to coin a phrase for grammar right now, it would be a nasin.

nasin nimi - grammar, syntax
nasin pi kalama lili - phonotactics

I'm getting L1 interference from "head word" (the top corner guide words in dictionaries) when I read "lawa nimi"

Also there is the "head word" of a phrase, which is an important concept in tp, since as far as I can tell, noun and verb phrases can't be head-less.

I just noticed you referenced my blog! I can't remember if I'm disagreeing with myself. If I remember correctly, I tried to compile the list from what people suggested on the yahoo mailing list.

janKipo
Posts: 2860
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: mi pana e "toki!" suli tawa sina mute.

Postby janKipo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:22 pm

But "head word" would be 'nimi lawa;; (NA, remember).
I agree that 'nasin' is better, however, for theories and systems, as opposed to statutes and the like.


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