tomo sona

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mije Wi
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

tomo sona

Post by mije Wi »

pona a.
tenpo ni la mi tawa tomo e ma tomo ante kepeken mama mije. mi kulupu e tomo pi sona kasi. ona li suli a a a.
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janMato
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Re: tomo sona

Post by janMato »

mije Wi wrote:pona a.
tenpo ni la mi tawa tomo e ma tomo ante kepeken mama mije. mi kulupu e tomo pi sona kasi. ona li suli a a a.
Here's my translation

"Hey, now I'm moving my house to another city using (by means of) my father. I gather the house botany. It is great! Ha ha ha!"

Here is my suggested corrections
tenpo ni la mi tawa ma tomo ante e tomo mi* poka (collaborating with) mama mije. kulupu mi li tomo pi sona kasi. ona li suli a a a. My department is botany.
* but this is toki nasa-- a really hard construction

tenpo ni la mi ante e tomo mi tawa ma tomo sin** poka (collaborating with) mama mije. kulupu mi li tomo pi sona kasi. ona li suli a a a.
** I change my house for a new house

tomo sin sina li pona ala pona? sina li tawa tan seme? sina sona mute ala mute pi sona kasi?
mije Wi
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: tomo sona

Post by mije Wi »

:D I wanted to say:

Today i went by car to another city with my father. I joined the university of agriculture. It's large, ha ha ha!

Maybe this is better:

tenpo suno ni la mi tawa tomo ante poka mama mije kepeken tomo tawa. mi kulupu e tomo sona kasi. ona li suli a a a.
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janMato
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
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Re: tomo sona

Post by janMato »

mije Wi wrote::D I wanted to say:

Today i went by car to another city with my father. I joined the university of agriculture. It's large, ha ha ha!

Maybe this is better:

tenpo suno ni la mi tawa tomo ante poka mama mije kepeken tomo tawa. mi kulupu e tomo sona kasi. ona li suli a a a.
These are established-- S tawa Means-of-transportation
mi tawa noka.
waso li tawa luka.

So to follow the pattern

mi tawa tawa tomo.
or
mi tawa pi tawa tomo.

Which altogether I guess is a way of incorporating the instrument into the verb phrase.

But we also have kepeken, which is a less clever instrumental.

mi tawa kepeken tawa tomo.

At the moment I'm not sure of any better ways to express "to join"
jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: tomo sona

Post by jan-ante »

mije Wi wrote:tenpo suno ni la mi tawa tomo ante poka mama mije kepeken tomo tawa.

mi en mama mije mi li tawa (pi/pu) ma tomo ante ...
mi kulupu e tomo sona kasi. ona li suli a a a.
1) in fact you dint join the university. at the moment you just became a student. to really join the uni, you need to get seat and vote at university coulcil. so tenpo ni la mi jan pi kama sona lon tomo sona pi kasi kili (kasi moku)
2) e introduces direct object (DO). "university" is not the DO in "joined (to) the university"
janKipo
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Re: tomo sona

Post by janKipo »

Well, you clearly don't need 'pi' (or 'pu', whatever that turns out to be) between 'tawa' and the destination. It is not clear how general the use of modifiers on 'tawa' to indicate locomotive devices is; .noku' and 'luka' seem settled but 'tomo tawa' feels bad (whatever that means). I'd stick with 'kepeken' to be on the safe side.
Quite right about "join", which in this case means "become a member of", which seems to be 'kama jan pi kulupu ni'. But here, presumably, it is just enroll (or matriculate) and so 'kama jan pi kama sona'
jan-ante
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Re: tomo sona

Post by jan-ante »

janKipo wrote:Well, you clearly don't need 'pi' (or 'pu', whatever that turns out to be) between 'tawa' and the destination.
but pu could also mark the end of complex word, indicating that the nex word is not a modifier but something else
janKipo
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Re: tomo sona

Post by janKipo »

Not sure I follow. You place 'pu' before 'ma tomo', a complex word, I suppose; what goes before 'pu' is just 'tawa', about as simple as can be. So. the idea is that 'tomo' is not a modifier of 'ma' but something -- what? -- else. 'tomo' clearly is a modifier to 'ma', so I guess what you are suggesting (I have been thinking out loud here) is that 'ma tomo' is not a modifier to 'tawa' but rather a NP complement. Now that I agree with and can see the point of marking it, except that Pije, at least, goes to great lengths to insist that is just the normal flow of things (if I remember correctly -- not at all a sure thing).
mije Wi
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: tomo sona

Post by mije Wi »

Yes I matriculated!

I don't understand tawa.

pi = means of transportation
e = to where?

If tawa pi noka is correct, why isn't tawa pi tomo tawa, or even tawa pi tomo tawa pi mama mije?

And what about tawa pi tomo? If i tawa by a tomo, isn't it clear it is a tomo tawa?
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janKipo
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Re: tomo sona

Post by janKipo »

'pi' requires at least two words after it, so 'tawa pi noka' is wrong as it stands, though 'tawa noka' is fine. Part of the trouble is that 'tawa' is basically a proposition, i.e., should be followed by a noun and 'noka' and 'tomo tawa' are nouns. Here, however, serving as modifiers. When 'tawa' functions as a verb, as in this case, the "to where" is the noun that follows it in its prepositional function. So. if we wanted to do the whole thing using both thse devices, we would end up with 'tawa pi tomo tawa pi mama mije mi, tomo sona pi suli kasi' I put a comma in to mark the break between the modifier to the verb, 'toma tawa pi mama mije mi' and the destination ' tomo sona pi suli kasi' ("school for growing plants"). This las is not the direct object, which is introduced by 'e'. 'pi' does (obviously) not mean "method of locomotion"; it merely separates out right-grouped chunks in a left-grouping structure: so 'tomo tawa' is taken as a unit modifying 'tawa' rather than 'tomo modifying 'tawa' and 'tawa' then modifying 'tawa tomo'
Sorry; that is a lot of tp grammar in a short space. Please ask more questions
The problem with 'tawa tomo' is that it naturally reads as "go to the building" not "go by means of the construction".
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