Toki!

Community: Meet and greet, introductions, networking, gatherings, events, what's new in your life?
Komunumo: Interkoniĝo, sinprezentoj, socia retumado, renkontiĝoj, eventoj, kio novas en via vivo?
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Toki!

Post by janKipo »

Mako wrote:Semper aliquid corrigendum!
vere vere semper itaque.
mi pini ante e toki mute mi.
mi sona e ni: tenpo ni la mi pali e toki mute lili. tenpo suno kama la mi tawa ma tomo Lesiton. mil mute li toki wan kepeken toki Lasina. mi ken ala toki kepeken toki ante. tempo esun la mi ken ala toki e toki ante. mi ken toki kepeken toki Lasina.
Could use a 'taso' here and there, mainly after 'toki Lasina' Do you mean 'toki e toki ante' to mean "talk ABOUT another language" or do you mean "talk IN another language" The latter has been established already, the former maybe isn't best expressed this way (though maybe it is).
taso.

mi pini tawa tomo mi tan kulupu toki Lasina. telo lili li lon kon li ma tomo Lesiton. tenpo ni la mi lon telo suli. mi e mije sama pali lon ma ni.
maybe 'kulupu pi toki Lasina': ther are maybe some fine differences involved, but we don't know what they are yet.
I don't think a little water is the city of Lexington, as you say. Do you mean 'en' in place of 'li' Water is in the air and in the city of Lexington"? You surely mean 'en' for 'e' in the subject of the next sentence, which needs a 'li' somewhere: is it me and my working brother are in this country or me and my brother are working in this country?
mi wile kama sona e toki Epalanto. tempo tomo sona kama la mi jo jan pona. mi pini jo e olin lili tawa ona. tempo ni la mi jo ala e olin. ona li jo e jan pona li sona e toki Epelanto. tempo kama lili la mi wile lukin e ona kepeken tomo tawa kon. mi wile lukin e jan pona mi e jan pona ona.
Maybe 'tenpo pi tomo sona li kama', "When school time comes" 'mi pini olin e ona' o0r is there a distinction you are trying to make?
Mako
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:32 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Toki!

Post by Mako »

janKipo wrote:
Mako wrote:Semper aliquid corrigendum!
vere vere semper itaque.
mi pini ante e toki mute mi.
mi sona e ni: tenpo ni la mi pali e toki mute lili. tenpo suno kama la mi tawa ma tomo Lesiton. mil mute li toki wan kepeken toki Lasina. mi ken ala toki kepeken toki ante. tempo esun la mi ken ala toki e toki ante. mi ken toki kepeken toki Lasina.
Could use a 'taso' here and there, mainly after 'toki Lasina' Do you mean 'toki e toki ante' to mean "talk ABOUT another language" or do you mean "talk IN another language" The latter has been established already, the former maybe isn't best expressed this way (though maybe it is).
I meant "tempo esun kama la mi wile ken ala toki kepeken toki ante" "During the following week, I will not be allowed to speak using another language (other than Latin). Perhaps it could be shortened to " mi wile ken ala toki ante" "speak other-ly". I'm also not sure whether "wile ken" is legal.

taso.

mi pini tawa tomo mi tan kulupu toki Lasina. telo lili li lon kon li ma tomo Lesiton. tenpo ni la mi lon telo suli. mi e mije sama pali lon ma ni.
maybe 'kulupu pi toki Lasina': ther are maybe some fine differences involved, but we don't know what they are yet.

I don't think a little water is the city of Lexington, as you say. Do you mean 'en' in place of 'li' Water is in the air and in the city of Lexington"? You surely mean 'en' for 'e' in the subject of the next sentence, which needs a 'li' somewhere: is it me and my working brother are in this country or me and my brother are working in this country?
mi wile kama sona e toki Epalanto. tempo tomo sona kama la mi jo jan pona. mi pini jo e olin lili tawa ona. tempo ni la mi jo ala e olin. ona li jo e jan pona li sona e toki Epelanto. tempo kama lili la mi wile lukin e ona kepeken tomo tawa kon. mi wile lukin e jan pona mi e jan pona ona.
Maybe 'tenpo pi tomo sona li kama', "When school time comes" 'mi pini olin e ona' o0r is there a distinction you are trying to make?
Well, I thought about saying "kulupu pi toki Lasina", but I also read the notes at http://bknight0.myweb.uga.edu/toki/lesson/lesson0.html
about the novice's overuse of "pi". "telo lili li lon kon" = "it is humid". Perhaps "telo lili li lon kon Lesiton"? "mi en mije sama li pali lon ma ni".
I was trying for something like "tenpo mi pi tomo sona pini la" = My time of school, past LA" = My past time at school = When I was at school. I was trying to say "I had a crush on her, but now I don't". "mi olin ala" seems to imply I don't have any affection for her (which is untrue), but I certainly don't have a crush on her.
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Toki!

Post by janKipo »

OK then, 'jo e olin lili' works as would just 'olin lili' But 'mi jo E jan sona.'
The air isn't called "Lexington", so maybe 'kon pi ma Lesinton'
How to do the intricacies of time references in the 'la' slot is a question in need of some work; yours looks good for what you want, though I can imagine a justification for some other arrangements of the words involved.
I'm not sure how far down the emotional attachment scale 'olin' goes, but I can imagine having some pilin tawa ona even if they did not come up to olin.
"itaque" is one "que" too long; sorry, but it's been a while.
janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Toki!

Post by janMato »

Ditto what jan Kipo said and I need some practice, so I'll see if I can copy edit this and translate it
Mako wrote:"Semper aliquid corrigendum!"

mi (pini ante) e toki mute mi.
mi sona e ni: tenpo ni la mi pali e toki mute lili. tenpo suno kama la mi tawa ma tomo Lesiton. mi mute li toki wan kepeken toki Lasina. mi ken ala toki kepeken toki ante. tenpo esun kama la mi ken ala toki e toki ante. mi ken toki kepeken toki Lasina.
I have differently finished my talks. [not sure where this was going]
I know this, now I make few talks. Tomorrow, I go to Lesiton(?). We speak as one in Latin. I can't talk with other languages. For (the upcoming) week I can't talk other languages. I can talk in Latin.
Mako wrote:taso.

pini la mi tawa tomo mi tan kulupu toki Lasina. telo lili li lon kon li (lon) ma tomo Lesiton. [kon pi ma tomo lesiton li jo e telo kon would convey humidity] tenpo ni la mi lon telo suli. mi jo e mije sama pali lon ma ni.
But. I have just gone to my home from the Latin club. Rain is in the air and the city Lesiton. Now I am in the ocean. I have a coworker in this place.
Mako wrote:mi wile kama sona e toki Epalanto. tenpo pi tomo sona kama la mi jo e jan pona. mi pini jo e olin lili tawa ona. tenpo ni la mi jo ala e olin. ona li jo e jan pona: jan ni li sona e toki Epelanto. tenpo kama lili la mi wile (lukin e) tawa ona kepeken tomo tawa kon. mi wile lukin e jan pona mi e jan pona ona.
I want to learn Esperanto. In the upcoming school times, I will have a friend. I've finished having little affection for them. Now I don't get any love. They have a friend who knows (as in, is an expert about the subject) Esperanto. Soon I want to (look at) visit them with an airplane. I want to see my friend and their friend.

re: olin lili
lili and suli are common words for building new phrases that mean something more specific, e.g. telo suli=ocean, not just a lot of water (although it cold)--- but it sucks to be the first person to try to use it. I read this as "small affection"

Maybe a crush is something like "pilin pi olin suli pi tenpo lili" or in a sentence, tenpo lili la jan li pilin e olin suli tawa jan.
Last edited by janMato on Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Toki!

Post by janKipo »

"I just changed [presumably corrected] my message" (literally "finished changing")
"I know that now I make few messages' ("don't write much"?). Tomorrow I go to Lexington. We (will) talk together using Latin. I cannot talk in another language. For a week, ['kama' seems to make this mean "in a week (from now)" but the whole time phrasing in 'la' is a mass of conflicting practices] I can't talk ... other languages [This looks like one solution to the "about" problem, so "talk about other languages", but I suspect it is just the (common) error about how to say "in another language"]
"But [I think he means "later" or some such] Finally [not quite sure what this is meant to mean, so I take it as the mirror of 'open' "in the beginning'] I went to my home from the Latin language convention [I think this needs a 'pi', since it is the language, not the convention which is Latin] It is humid in Lexington [Lotsa ways to fix this; your works, too.] Now I am in/on the ocean [or. for Lexington, "lake"] I and my brother work in this land." [Your resolution makes good sens, too, but he seems to have intended an 'en' rather than an 'e' and a 'li' before 'pali']
[He apparently mean 'pini' rather than 'kama'] "During my last school year, I had a friend. I have stopped having a crush on her. Now I don't have love. She has a friend who know Esperanto [love that picking up of a relative clause] Soon I will visit [yes, 'tawa' is better, since you can't see using an airplane] then by airplane. I want to see my friend and her friend."
Mako
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:32 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Toki!

Post by Mako »

janKipo wrote:"I just changed [presumably corrected] my message" (literally "finished changing")
"I know that now I make few messages' ("don't write much"?). Tomorrow I go to Lexington. We (will) talk together using Latin. I cannot talk in another language. For a week, ['kama' seems to make this mean "in a week (from now)" but the whole time phrasing in 'la' is a mass of conflicting practices] I can't talk ... other languages [This looks like one solution to the "about" problem, so "talk about other languages", but I suspect it is just the (common) error about how to say "in another language"]
"But [I think he means "later" or some such] Finally [not quite sure what this is meant to mean, so I take it as the mirror of 'open' "in the beginning'] I went to my home from the Latin language convention [I think this needs a 'pi', since it is the language, not the convention which is Latin] It is humid in Lexington [Lotsa ways to fix this; your works, too.] Now I am in/on the ocean [or. for Lexington, "lake"] I and my brother work in this land." [Your resolution makes good sens, too, but he seems to have intended an 'en' rather than an 'e' and a 'li' before 'pali']
[He apparently mean 'pini' rather than 'kama'] "During my last school year, I had a friend. I have stopped having a crush on her. Now I don't have love. She has a friend who know Esperanto [love that picking up of a relative clause] Soon I will visit [yes, 'tawa' is better, since you can't see using an airplane] then by airplane. I want to see my friend and her friend."
Okay, maybe I was overambitious. I have a few specific questions. (And sorry about the tense mixup)
1. If "telo suli" means "ocean", would "lake" be "telo suli lon insa ma"?
2. Does tense, once established, continue until indication of a change? In other words, would "tempo suno pini la mi tawa tomo umpa. olin meli mi li pakala e mi kepeken ilo moku." be assumed to be "pini"?
3. "tempo kama" means "week"? I thought "week" was "tempo esun".

jan pona mi li sona e ijo suli. tempo ni la ona li ken ala e ni: tempo ni la mi tawa tomo sina. pona ala li tawa mi.
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Toki!

Post by janKipo »

1. It's always contextual. I admit now that I am not sure which Lexington he is talking about. I got to Kentucky and went with lake; he may be in Massachusetts and mean ocean. If you need to talk about both in a single context, something like what you suggest would work but I imagine other, simpler, things would arise ('telo suli lili' for example -- assuming we are not comparing oceans and seas, say, as well as lakes).
2. Context again. Some folk are more given to putting in tense markers (as it were), other less so. You go with the flow, what seems to make sense. Yours sounds (to me) like a continuous narrative, so I would expect it all in the past (as though the second started with either 'tenpo ni' "at that time' or 'tenpo ni pini' "after that", immediate or slightly later). ?knife, fork or spoon, or chopsticks (which sounds particularly unpleasant somehow)?
3. The item in question (I think) was 'tenpo esun la', Which I would take to mean "for a week" (yes, 'tenpo esun' means 'week', more or less); 'tenpo esun kama' means either "in a week" or "next week". But this is all pretty tenuous: there are a lot of time expressions that could go here and we have not sorted them out at all clearly.

My friend knows a big thing (I take this to be a physical object, not a topic -- but that's me). Now he does not enable it (?put it online? say) [I suspect you mean 'ona li ken ala pali e ni:' or maybe 'kama' instead of 'pali' "He can't make it happen that I go to his house. No good goes to me. (probably "comes" in English, but 'tawa' is right in tp).
Mako
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:32 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Toki!

Post by Mako »

janKipo wrote:1. It's always contextual. I admit now that I am not sure which Lexington he is talking about. I got to Kentucky and went with lake; he may be in Massachusetts and mean ocean. If you need to talk about both in a single context, something like what you suggest would work but I imagine other, simpler, things would arise ('telo suli lili' for example -- assuming we are not comparing oceans and seas, say, as well as lakes).
2. Context again. Some folk are more given to putting in tense markers (as it were), other less so. You go with the flow, what seems to make sense. Yours sounds (to me) like a continuous narrative, so I would expect it all in the past (as though the second started with either 'tenpo ni' "at that time' or 'tenpo ni pini' "after that", immediate or slightly later). ?knife, fork or spoon, or chopsticks (which sounds particularly unpleasant somehow)?
3. The item in question (I think) was 'tenpo esun la', Which I would take to mean "for a week" (yes, 'tenpo esun' means 'week', more or less); 'tenpo esun kama' means either "in a week" or "next week". But this is all pretty tenuous: there are a lot of time expressions that could go here and we have not sorted them out at all clearly.

My friend knows a big thing (I take this to be a physical object, not a topic -- but that's me). Now he does not enable it (?put it online? say) [I suspect you mean 'ona li ken ala pali e ni:' or maybe 'kama' instead of 'pali' "He can't make it happen that I go to his house. No good goes to me. (probably "comes" in English, but 'tawa' is right in tp).
jan pona mi li kama sona tan ni: ona li wile pali e sitelen pali suli. ona li ken ala pali e ni: mi tawa tomo ona. pilin ike li tawa mi.

My friend is studing because of this: she wants to pass an important exam. She can't do this: that I go to her house. I'm mildly disappointed.
janKipo
Posts: 3064
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Toki!

Post by janKipo »

Just came across this in today's dictionary work: 'anpa' for "pass an exam" -- but nothing for "exam". ours is pretty good, but general (any big project would do -- out of context). Maybe, lacking clear connection with school, something like 'lukin sitelen pi sona ona' or so. Or maybe not.
"She can't get me to come to her house" might also be just 'ona li kan ala tawa e mi tawa tomo ona' (or 'sama' even) (I'm avoiding doing "tawa tomo ona e mi' to prevent explosions)
'mi pilin ike lili' details like "disappointed" take a lot of work with out a previous story of expectation. 'pilin' needs some rules about when the feeling is a modifier and when a DO; I haven't seen a pattern emerge.
janMato
Posts: 1545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Toki!

Post by janMato »

janKipo wrote:Just came across this in today's dictionary work: 'anpa' for "pass an exam" -- but nothing for "exam".
That must be a metaphor for "defeating" a test, I've seen anpa used to mean defeat (in battle).

jan sona li pana e lipu pi kulupu nimi pi wile sona. The teacher gave a sheet with questions.
jan pi sona wile li pali pini e lipu. The students took the test. (filled out the sheet)
jan pi sona wile li anpa e lipu. The students defeated the sheet.

I can't say I like "jan pi sona wile" much though. Persons of desirable knowledge could just as easily be people who desire knowledge.
Post Reply