janKipo wrote:Well, my remark was meant to be sarcastic; but OK. I thought you were in favor of object incorporation in tp, whereas you are just noting its apparent occurrence with some people claiming it is OK.
I think object incorporation (and maybe oblique incorporation) makes the most sense in li chains where otherwise it would be hard to co-ordinate prep phrases and objects.
mi moku pi moku li lape li pali e sitelen kepeken ilo sona. "I eat food, I sleep, I write programs using computers"
vs
mi moku li lape li pali e moku e sitelen kepeken ilo sona. multiple meanings, the above, plus "I eat, sleep and create food and pictures, all using computers"
Otherwise, it is better to use "e" or a suitable preposition, because both have more information than juxtaposition or "pi". Both juxtaposition and "pi" are mostly universal relationships that could mean anything.
Someday I need to compile a list of the uses of pi, because there are some cases where pi seems to be called for even when followed by only 1 word-- (overlays of e and preps esp.)
What seems common about toki, pilin, etc is that the semantically most logical object is implied by the verb. I talk a talk. I feel a feeling. I think a though. What else can one think? I can't think anything but thoughts. Talking is a bit more general-- I can talk a talk (or say a word, or say a sentence, etc).
... it is easy to generalize from a few cases, not recognized as special, to every verb. Or, of course, it is easy to forget the 'e'.
I've read that Esperanto that also double marks S and O (by place and by case), has people forgetting the final accusative "n", because if the word order is rigid enough, the "n" is unnecessary. I think this is the issue in toki pona, where the word order really is completely rigid. So "e" dropping is likely to happen and people will see it as an implied rule... of some sort that I'm still working out.