toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

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Kodret
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toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby Kodret » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:43 pm

hi, my name is Melky, from Bolivia, I still don't speak Toki Pona completely, but I'm learning =D

Well, the thing is, I found this language really interesting, and I want to do an extended essay about it for school, but I need sources, texts, or something. And I would really appreciate anything (I've googled for some, but here is where I'll probably find some more).

It doesn't have to be some study from a language expert or something, it could be an opinion someone (you) wrote, specially about this: "Training your mind to think in Toki Pona can lead to many deeper insights about yourself or the world around you."
That's the main hypothesis.

I don't know if I could use this topic as a source, but if you would like to say something about it just spontaneously, I'd like to read it anyway :)

janMato
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby janMato » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:01 pm

The wikipedia article is probably your best source, jan Pije's lessons
http://bknight0.myweb.uga.edu/toki/

after that the various old versions of the tokipona.org website available on the way back machine
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://tokipona.org

This is pretty close to a complete list of the toki-pona-verse for everything else.
http://www.suburbandestiny.com/?p=639
The above list I compiled mainly to find texts in toki pona. There various sources about toki pona tend to be pretty repetitive.

As far as dead tree sources, Land of the Invented Languages is the only book that mentions it (but only one sentence), there a few newspaper articles, most important the LA Times article from 2007. There are few academic articles, see the current wiki. This forum only lets me post 4 links, so you'll have to do the rest of the searching on your own.

That should be enough to keep you busy, don't forget to posts something in toki pona!

janMato
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby janMato » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:02 pm

Also, did you want sources in Spanish? I can track down those, too.

Kodret
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby Kodret » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:57 pm

wow, thanks! that's a lot of information

I actually haven't looked for anything in spanish, I usually just look for information in english. But it's ok, we're allowed to use sources in english, spanish or german.

mi toki lili e toki pona tan ni: tenpo pini lili la mi kama sona e toki pona. mi kama sona mute tan toki pona ("I learn a lot from toki pona", not sure how to say that)

I'll practice in the next weeks, translating some things to toki pona really changes the way I understand things

well, thanks again for the texts!

janMato
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby janMato » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:44 pm

This is the most important tutorial in Spanish: http://elzr.com/tokipona/
It has a few obsolete words in it, which is only interesting for nitpickers.

http://tokipona.alinome.net/que.es.html
This is repeated in the list in my blog and is interesting for being one of the more important sources of Spanish to toki pona translations.

At the moment I can't find a Spanish translation of jan Pije's lessons. Anyhow for many of the foreign language translations of jan Pije lessons, they often lag the most recent version.

jan-ante
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby jan-ante » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:37 am

Kodret wrote: "Training your mind to think in Toki Pona can lead to many deeper insights about yourself or the world around you."
That's the main hypothesis.

i can only suggest you to change the topic. becuase that "is the main hypothesis" and (currently) nobody could prove or refute it, although tp was intended for this initially. but you can discuss the other applications of tp:
    * experimental tool for psycology
    * the basis for conlang for human-to-computer communications
    * the planned minimalistic pidgin potentially useful for conflict situations like in Balkans
    * the conlang for high arts potentially suitable because of its minimalistic dictionary

Kodret
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby Kodret » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:33 pm

jan-ante wrote:i can only suggest you to change the topic. becuase that "is the main hypothesis" and (currently) nobody could prove or refute it


that's right... didn't see that :?
I still can make it a discussion (the phrase wouldn't be a "hypothesis", but more like "the subject")
Bringing arguments about the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis or maybe about how it reflects Taoism
It's a long work, so I'll probably mention some of toki pona applications, like the ones you listed.

Thanks, I will rephrase the title

janMato
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby janMato » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:41 pm

Kodret wrote:It's a long work, so I'll probably mention some of toki pona applications, like the ones you listed.


And medical applications. I think the idea that toki pona can help treat depression is quite the innovative idea. Made me image several other possible medical uses of constructed languages, particularly with regard to stroke (rehab via re-learning language via a simpler one), Alzheimer's (delaying the language loss), and other creative but untested ideas, there is a thread about that somewhere on the forum.

Kodret
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby Kodret » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:35 pm

janMato wrote:I think the idea that toki pona can help treat depression is quite the innovative idea.


yes, I'll look for something about that, too. Thanks, I had totally forgotten about that
the thing is, I can't mention any "untested idea" just like that, I would have to work on how it would go if it was tested, and so on
but maybe there is an extension of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis focused on medicine (rehab or treatment for depression, like you said)

janMato
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Re: toki! anyone has texts about Toki Pona?

Postby janMato » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:49 pm

Kodret wrote:
janMato wrote:I think the idea that toki pona can help treat depression is quite the innovative idea.


yes, I'll look for something about that, too. Thanks, I had totally forgotten about that
the thing is, I can't mention any "untested idea" just like that, I would have to work on how it would go if it was tested, and so on
but maybe there is an extension of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis focused on medicine (rehab or treatment for depression, like you said)


Well the link between Alzheimer's dementia and bilingualism has evidence-- the more language you learn the later in life you get Alzheimer's.

As for the depression idea, this is based on anecdotal evidence-- jan Sonja wrote the language during a bout of depression and presumably derived some benefit from it. If you are trying get published in the medical journal Lancet, then anecdotal evidence won't fly. If you are writing a paper for school, it suffices that you don't make up the anecdotal evidence. You don't need to do a double blind study.

And the S-W hypothesis depends on how your formulate it. The strong versions are just asking to be debunked by amateur philosophers (like, you can't imagine "honor" if the word isn't in your language, or act out the word "revolt" if language lacks a word for it), the weaker versions of it is testing stuff so small I'm never sure if I should care-- do people ignore shades of purple if they don't have several words for purple? Either way, it's just a couple of colors! Even if language did induce colorblindness, the internal intellectual world of people who really are colorblind can't be all that interestingly different if that is all that is different.


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