Toki from Pal raspakant

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raspakant
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:01 pm
Location: Italy

Toki from Pal raspakant

Postby raspakant » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:48 pm

Toki !
I learned a bit TP last year, but by now I have lost a lot; I think it is a good mind-trainer, a yoga of tongue, pen and thought;
I live in Italy;
Pal-Raspakant

janMato
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Re: Toki from Pal raspakant

Postby janMato » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:56 pm

raspakant wrote:Toki !
I learned a bit TP last year, but by now I have lost a lot; I think it is a good mind-trainer, a yoga of tongue, pen and thought;
I live in Italy;
Pal-Raspakant


tenpo pini lili la sina sitelen e ni:

"tenpo suno sike pini la mi sona e toki pona. taso tenpo ni la mi weka sona e sona mute. mi pilin e ni: toki pona li pona sama pali tawa lawa insa, e ni: toki pona li pali pi sijelo pona tawa uta insa en ilo sitelen en lawa insa.

mi li lon ma Italija"

Welcome back to toki pona.
Last edited by janMato on Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jan Josan
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Re: Toki from Pal raspakant

Postby jan Josan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:19 pm

jan Raspakant o kama pona sin!

jan Mato o, I would be careful about trying to nest sentences in "mi pilin e ni: ..., e ni:..." I would try "mi pilin e ni: toki pona li ... li ... ." or "mi pilin e ni: ... . mi pilin kin e ni:... ."

janMato
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Re: Toki from Pal raspakant

Postby janMato » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:49 pm

jan Josan wrote:jan Raspakant o kama pona sin!

jan Mato o, I would be careful about trying to nest sentences in "mi pilin e ni: ..., e ni:..." I would try "mi pilin e ni: toki pona li ... li ... ." or "mi pilin e ni: ... . mi pilin kin e ni:... ."


Oh dear me. "e ni: Sentence" is gone from the current wikipedia phrase grammar. Now I wonder, was that a change or was "e ni:" (start of embedded sentences) always meant to be read as "e ni." (end of sentence, start new)

For example the zompist phrase guide has:
ona li toki e ni: "mi wile tawa ma Kanata tan ma ni. tenpo pi mute seme la mi awen lon tomo tawa kon?"

If recursion is/was allowed in "e-phrases" then the above should have been:
? ona li toki e ni: "mi wile tawa ma Kanata tan ma ni[,]" e ni: "tenpo pi mute seme la mi awen lon tomo tawa kon?"

Which gets us back to, are people recursing despite the official grammar--uh wikipedia grammar--which officially only allows S (la S (la S)) and what to do about it. I think not recursing often leads to worse circumlocutions, especially when prep phrases can't embedded in prep phrases, or when noun phrases with "pi" can't be embedded into noun phrases with "pi".

Opinions may vary. Recurse only in a well ventilated and well lighted room.

janKipo
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Re: Toki from Pal raspakant

Postby janKipo » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:13 pm

The colon in 'e ni:' is purely a punctuation convention. Grammatically, they are two separate sentences, not one complex one. The following sentence is not (almost ever) asserted but is rather a display (as the 'ni' suggests). So, the display can be more than one sentence long. In direct quotations, of course, this is shown by the quote marks; in indirect, it has to be contextual -- and lotsa luck there.

I don't entirely see what all this has to do with recursion, but it does appear that 'pi' can (but shouldn't often) occur in 'pi' expressions and maybe PPs can, to, in which case they could occur in PPs and so on.


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