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Toki Pona Forums • Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words
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Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:34 pm
by jan Same
toki!
I really love jan Sonja's sitelen pona hieroglyphs.
Right now, I'm making a computer font for it (it's going to be great for reading small texts).
But it seems the glyphs haven't been updated since their creation,
well established words like kipisi and oko don't even have a glyph.

I would like to use sitelen pona with the new words, so I had a little fun and created some propositions.
(This is in no way official, and I am in no way trying to appropriate myself jan Sonja's work, I just had a little fun)

Image

Image

I tried to be clear in my explanations,
and I know some people don't use these words at all, maybe even think they shouldn't exist.
But from time to time, there are some people who use them.
So for the sake of choice, it could be cool to have them.
If the community likes them enough, I might even add them to my font
(tell me what you think about this, I don't want to cause an uproar :lol: ).

What do you think?
Do you like the idea? Hate it?
Maybe there's one glyph that could get better?
Would you change something?

pona ala pona ? :)

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:58 pm
by janKipo
pona.
Insofar as I like glyphs, I really like these and the explanations are very good. But...
1. there is no glyph here for 'kin' which pu absorbs to 'a' but which functions autonomously in most of the corpus.
2. 'apeja' is a notion which should never have gotten into tp and has, happily, almost never been used. I would exclude it just to prevent it eer catching on. (note" the words listed as adjectives are nouns or verbs) (since glyphs can be combined, this glyph is ambiguous for "screwed up love" -- a rather different concept.)
3. On the other hand, I am delighted to see 'pake', for all sorts of reasons (and planned uses), though I have to admit that 'pata'' "sibling" has seen more use and 'leko' "square" has a strong claim and some use. The other old words seem pretty surely dead.
4. for distinctness, it might be better to make 'oko' (> (I hope you get the idea) so as to be more clearly distinct from 'lukin' (actually, this sign is better for 'lukin' and 'lukin's for 'oko', but that is another matter).

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:10 pm
by jan Same
Oh I forgot about "kin"! It's true there isn't a glyph for it either! Not sure what it could be though... maybe several plus signs?

Sorry for mixing up the adjectives and the verbs, I'm really not good with that stuff :lol:

I've seen “apeja” used from time to time so I decided to put it in,
even though I have to admit the concept is a bit contradictory to toki pona's philosophy.

I did a glyph for “leko”,which was like the glyph for “sike” but with two square instead of circles.
I wasn't sure the word was dead or not, so I decided not to put it in.

I might make a glyph for “pata” too, I thought it was too dead to have a glyph, but maybe I'll give it chance.

I like your idea for “oko”, I'm going to make a new version of it,
maye use the glyph for “ijo” and put “lukin” inside of it (thing that sees = oko).

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:57 pm
by janKipo
'kin' means loosely either "moreover" or "however", which doesn't lend itself to pictures. the main point is extra stress, however, (which is why it got collapsed with 'a') so maybe another version of a stress marker (though not a variant of "!").
I haven't seen 'apeja' though I just may be unconsciously ignoring it.
I 've seen several 'pata's but I am also working in old text at the moment, wich may be the reason.
'leko' is at least rare, if not non-occurrent, but it would be so handy if it turned up
as with 'apeja', making compound glyphs for single notions runs into the fact that the glyphs can be compounded anyhow.

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:19 pm
by jan Same
toki!
Thanks to the suggestions of the toki pona, and reddit forums,
I made new versions for the “apeja” and “oko” glyphs.
I also created propositions for three words I forgot, here's the result:
Image
Image

Any suggestions ? Anything weird ? What do you think?

pona ala pona?

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:08 pm
by janKipo
pona, though my earlier doubts remain.

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:28 am
by jan Same
jan Kipo, you're talking about apeja ? Or about everything ?
I have to admit, I don't really like apeja, and never use it.
Then again that's my personal opinion, and others may like the word.

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:10 am
by janKipo
Mainly about glyphs for single words that are close to combinations of glyphs for other words, however appropriate the combination is. So 'apeja' (which I still don't like) is close to "nothing in a group" and so on for the rest, except 'leko', in the revised group. A new word deserves a new symbol, not a mishmash.

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:32 pm
by jan Same
I see what you mean, I tried to implement things from other glyph for consistency,
but it's true that they all ended up looking too much like compound glyphs.

I'll see what I can come up with, but I'm having a hard time thinking about a glyph for kin and oko.
If you have any new ideas I would be happy to hear them :)

Re: Sitelen pona glyphs for new and apocryphal words

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:36 pm
by janTepanNetaPelin
jan Same o,

beautiful! :)

It took me a while to recognize that your sitelen pona for "kipisi" is the division sign. :D I first thought it's "lon" with a dot below.

"namako", which is very original, could be "sin" with three strokes above (as in "toki", which seems to be a modified version of "ijo sin"). But maybe your namako is just good.

Your monster/monsuta looks scary. :) I would try to use something without a circle. (Something simple like "pona"/"ike", which could be put inside an "ijo" or "jan".)

Your "kin" looks like "sama ijo" (not like "ijo sama", by the way) and your "pata" looks like "jan sama", which would not work in practice.