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ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta? - Toki Pona Forums

ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Signs and symbols: Writing systems (hieroglyphs, nail writing) and Signed Toki Pona; unofficial scripts too
Signoj kaj simboloj: Skribsistemoj (hieroglifoj, ungoskribado) kaj la Tokipona Signolingvo; ankaŭ por neoficialaj skribsistemoj
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jan Akesimun
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:15 am
Location: Huntsville, AL
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ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Postby jan Akesimun » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:34 am

jan li ken toki e toki pona. jan li ken sitelen e toki pona. ken la jan li ken toki e ona kepeken nimi ala? ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistled_language)? At the very least, it'd give a third way of using toki pona, instead of just speaking or writing it. sina ali li pilin e seme tan ni?
Yo estuve aquí.

janKipo
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Re: ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Postby janKipo » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:41 pm

i has me my doubts. Aside from Solresol and its kin, whistled languages tend to be for a relatively small set of fixed messages, fewer even than the word base of tp. but then, i am tone-deaf, so a whistle wouldn't convey much. tp sign language, on the other hand,...

Kuti
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Re: ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Postby Kuti » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:18 pm

MESSAGE DELETED
Last edited by Kuti on Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

jan Misite
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Re: ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Postby jan Misite » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:54 pm

From what I remember about Silbo Gomera, there are 4 consonants and 4 vowels, with stress and if I am not mistaken, a pitch distinction too. I might be wrong about the last part. If it is only 16 syllables we could still use my contracted syllabary idea (dissolve all of TP's syllables into 15 catch-all syllables) and use stress to distinguish word boundaries. You couldn't add new words though and it's not very pona. ;)

jan Akesimun
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Re: ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Postby jan Akesimun » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:30 am

Yo estuve aquí.

jan Misite
Posts: 42
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Re: ken la jan li ken toki kepeken kalama uta?

Postby jan Misite » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:21 pm

jan Akersimun: Well, actually, I meant to pair up the 16 possible syllables of Silbo Gomera (4 vowels and 4 consonants) arbitrarily with the 15 catch-all syllables from (this first scheme of mine is not just a shorthand but a kind of compression technique, akin to the letter codes jan ante worked on) but spelling out the words works too. I hadn't thought of that. :O If we use the most recent scheme from my alphasyllabary (which is the I have been working on the most right now) then we could probably get by with just using 11 of the 16 available syllables from Silbo Gomera to spell out the words. There is one possible problem: Running out of breath whistling all the letters. :) That is why I favor a written_syllable-to-whistled_syllable mapping in this case over a written_letter-to-whistled_syllable mapping.

To give you an example of how this would work, (if I remember correctly) one consonant of Silbo is tS, and there is a vowel i, so we can make the syllable [tSi]. That can be matched with any of the proposed syllabic "bins" for instance jo/ju/ta/ka. So if you accept that mapping (and there are hundreds if not thousands of acceptable mappings, so you can play around with them to get the melody you like), by whistling 'tSi' (with stress, and perhaps a pitch distinction, to mark the word boundary) you mean 'jo'. The one caveat is that you couldn't add new words because this scheme only works to pick out the word from the lexicon. Using the previous mapping, and adding another vowel I know is present in Silbo 'a' we can create the syllable tSa, we can use it with the "bin" pa/la; with these two syllables we can whistle the word tSatSitSa which can only mean 'pakala' because how I've deliberately divided the syllables of TP among the "bins". Note: I suggest keeping the TP convention of stress on the first syllable because that will allow us to keep short words from gluing onto the end of longer words.

I almost forgot to mention, Busuu.com has recordings of Silbo. Busuu is free and totally worth signing up for that reason alone.

jan Kipo: I don't pretend to know how Silbo stacks up against Solresol, but I do know that its whistlers (according to studies!) break the language up into syllables with vowels and occlusions. Maybe you could learn it! :)


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