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Writing System? - Page 2 - Toki Pona Forums

Writing System?

Signs and symbols: Writing systems (hieroglyphs, nail writing) and Signed Toki Pona; unofficial scripts too
Signoj kaj simboloj: Skribsistemoj (hieroglifoj, ungoskribado) kaj la Tokipona Signolingvo; ankaŭ por neoficialaj skribsistemoj
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Re: Writing System?

Postby janKipo » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:37 pm

Uffdah! This all raises an interesting question: does 'mi lukin pona' mean "I see well" or "I look good (i.e., am handsome or at least healthy looking)?
Surely, "I look at myself" is 'mi lukin e sama' (with all the questions this can raise).
The "try to" sense of 'lukin' (not so plausible now that we have 'alasa') pretty clearly does not apply here, but only on content grounds
How 'sama' works as a verb has not been tested much, I think, but I would expect what the subject seems to be would be the object, not a complement (which are pretty rare), or a verbal -- rather than nominal -- complement.
But then, the lessons do suggest that complements are more common than appears in the corpus, since it seems to solve the "about" problem with complements (and thus adds half a dozen verbs at least)
The 'e ni:' construction corresponds exactly (including connection choice) to the English "that" construction for indirect discourse, so stretching it to other cases is tricky, although using 'ni' to serve as a connection to cover relative clauses is useful, but follows a different pattern.
'kama' takes a VP complement, but not, apparently, a NP one; where you come to in the literal motion sense is introduced by 'tawa'.
'sama' is also a preposition, so one question here is whether it is one here (in which case there would be no 'e'). If it were, it would modify 'ni lukin' as a way of seeing, which doesn't seem to be right, so on the whole, it looks the sentence (with Josan's correction) is pretty much right as it stands -- unless 'sama ...' is itself the object rather than an adverb here. I don't know how to decide that one.

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jan Josan
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Re: Writing System?

Postby jan Josan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:41 pm

There is precedent for using sama this way, but I realize I missed something - there should be no 'e':

ni li lukin sama sitelen pi ilo MSpaint.

For a good discussion on sama used this way look for jan-ante's post where he discusses this common mistake.

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Re: Writing System?

Postby janMato » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:24 pm


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Re: Writing System?

Postby jan Ote » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:29 am


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Re: Writing System?

Postby janMato » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:17 am


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Re: Writing System?

Postby jan Ote » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:20 am


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Re: Writing System?

Postby jan Josan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:34 am


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Re: Writing System?

Postby jan Josan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:40 am

Now that I see jan Ote's entry, I think my B.s might be wrong-- Is the reflexive transitive or not?

she washes herself:
ona li telo sama.
or
ona li telo e ona sama.

I can't find the original examples for this-- jan Mato didn't you recently post some links?

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Re: Writing System?

Postby janKipo » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:26 pm

I see 'sama' needs some work, even beyond rereading the lessons. For the nonce, I am going to go with 'sama' in the relexive sense as being the DO in all cases (if not the modifier on a pronominal DO) and will extend the range of NP complements (and VP for that matter) very slowly, if at all. So far, the former go only with Prepositions and the latter only with Modals, with some possibility of extending NPs to the propositional predicate (that normally take sentences as objects) for the "about" question.

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Re: Writing System?

Postby jan Tawi » Fri May 14, 2010 1:29 pm

Just wondering if you could simply use "sama la" to express the idea.

sama la ona li lukin pona.
"seemingly" she is good-looking.

Just a thought, though, since I haven't been following TP's developement for quite some time; so I'm not sure if 'la' is a productive word to express new meanings... anyhow I think it's quite comfortable to pull out 'sama' and put it in front of the sentence; it makes the rest of the sentence easier.


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