sitelen suwi

Signs and symbols: Writing systems (hieroglyphs, nail writing) and Signed Toki Pona; unofficial scripts too
Signoj kaj simboloj: Skribsistemoj (hieroglifoj, ungoskribado) kaj la Tokipona Signolingvo; ankaŭ por neoficialaj skribsistemoj
janMato
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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby janMato » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:53 pm

jan Josan wrote:There are a lot of images that I've been meaning to post forever, like the piece that jan Mato owns.


Mine is on my wall, finally got it framed. What stand will you take on the apocrypha? (all those words that are in various status of proposed but not used, obsolete, etc)

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jan Josan
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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan Josan » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:53 am

janMato wrote:What stand will you take on the apocrypha?

I probably won't do anything with 'pu' until we know more, since it is too much of a mystery. Words like kipisi and namako look like they will at least act as normal toni pona parts of speech, so all they would take would be a new glyph, no new rules. For now if I was translating some toni pona that used them, I would probably write them out with the syllable glyphs. I'm guessing the first new word to get a new glyph will be alasa.

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jan Josan
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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan Josan » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:56 pm

I've revamped the old pages on my site and added lesson 9, Unofficial Words, Interjections, Commands. I'll be adding a couple new galleries of images next.

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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan Akesimun » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:28 pm

pona a! mi kama sona. :)
Yo estuve aquí.

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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan-ante » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 am

jan Josan wrote:I've revamped the old pages on my site and added lesson 9, Unofficial Words, Interjections, Commands. I'll be adding a couple new galleries of images next.
do you have any idea, which glyph should be over, the 1st or the last?
e.g. here
Image
toki is over suli, but Intenasijonale is over both, but in is over te and so on. If one use a vector graphic tool for writing, then the last glyph goes over automatically, and it might be some job to change the order

Also, i was thinking about container (frame) versus barrier (wall). May be you should not overuse containers, because they do not attract the eye as much as they should. mayan and egyptan did use them, but their monumental writhings were coloured and relief. you have just black and white, not even greyscale. may be providing the barrier alternative for every container could help.

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jan Josan
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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan Josan » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:33 am

do you have any idea, which glyph should be over, the 1st or the last?


Since the block order rules define the path through the glyph tower, it makes no difference in terms of meaning which is over or under. I go with whatever mix is the clearest visually.

In the example you post, the first syllable on Intenasijonale "in" is on top because the 'n' would be lost underneath, and toki as well because his nose would be lost behind 'suli'. And I try not to completely buy any one glyph

Thanks for the question, I just added another header placed in front, tucked behind to point out where this is explained in lesson 3.

If I made a unique vector font to be used in this way, growing and shrinking the glyphs and organizing them, I would probably make each glyph much squarer to limit the amount of overlap.

Also, i was thinking about container (frame) versus barrier (wall). May be you should not overuse containers, because they do not attract the eye as much as they should.


When the containers get in the way, you can always use the syllable glyph, the way li and pi are used in the last lesson in 'jan sonja li mama pi toki pona'. And the comma glyph can be used to create a partition between one part of the sentence and another. If I ever make a completely linear version of the script, I would probably make some form of parenthetical glyphs to isolate the unofficial words too, as the cartouche is the only container that needs to surround other glyphs.

toki suli |-( in te na si jo na le )

mayan and egyptan did use them, but their monumental writhings were coloured and relief. you have just black and white, not even greyscale. may be providing the barrier alternative for every container could help.


The transition that mayan makes between the reliefs, the books, and the pottery has been a model I've followed a lot. The glyphs on pottery are very simple black and white brushwork. In later chapters I'm going to fill in a lot more on simplification and working in linear writing.

Feel free to add color into any of these glyphs too, they are fully colorable! I don't know of any system of writing where the meaning is dependent on color, do you? I think this is because color is a luxury, but line is free.

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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby janMato » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:46 am

In later chapters I'm going to fill in a lot more on simplification and working in linear writing.

Kudos on the new lesson layout, its is a fresh new look. sitelen sin sina li pona mute tawa mi. I eagerly await some guidance on a linear block style. Algorithmic layout font glyphs is way beyond my programming skills.

Feel free to add color into any of these glyphs too, they are fully colorable! I don't know of any system of writing where the meaning is dependent on color, do you? I think this is because color is a luxury, but line is free.

I think in the real world color blindness is common enough to ensure that writing systems don't rely on color. Maybe someday I should try to color some of the fonts-- that would at least be in my artistic abilities!

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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan-ante » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:52 am

jan Josan wrote:When the containers get in the way, you can always use the syllable glyph, the way li and pi are used in the last lesson in 'jan sonja li mama pi toki pona'. And the comma glyph can be used to create a partition between one part of the sentence and another.
could comma glyph be vertical?

I don't know of any system of writing where the meaning is dependent on color, do you? I think this is because color is a luxury, but line is free.
but now we have computers
PS could you remind me the link for PPT file with glyphs for syllables? may be i'll try to write some hokku in stuw, as it optimally should be written in syllabic manner

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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby janMato » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:07 am

jan-ante wrote:PS could you remind me the link for PPT file with glyphs for syllables? may be i'll try to write some hokku in stuw, as it optimally should be written in syllabic manner


Uh oh, that link is dead. I used to have a copy, I'll look for it
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1199&p=6126&hilit=powerpoint#p6126

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jan Josan
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Re: sitelen suwi

Postby jan Josan » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:11 am

Kudos on the new lesson layout, its is a fresh new look. sitelen sin sina li pona mute tawa mi.

Thanks! It's a lot easier to work with since it's layer out with CSS rather than frame sets. I was able to write the text in markdown, then convert it to html and clean up the code in just a couple days. The longest part now is just the scanning of the glyphs. Hopefully this means I can put out a new lessons monthly rather than yearly.

I eagerly await some guidance on a linear block style. Algorithmic layout font glyphs is way beyond my programming skills.


I think the new html5 canvass element looks promising for a way to draw out the glyphs, and they would scale nicely if they were drawn with the line element. I'm imagining one function per glyph, which takes as arguments the coordinates of a box that it should fill.

For linear fonts, font squirrel is a great resource. I could make a font but I don't know if I could map it intelligently to characters the way you and jan Majiko were discussing a year or so ago. Maybe using a conversion from jan Ante's two letter code into unicode?


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