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A ranged possibility: two-letter codes - Page 2 - Toki Pona Forums

A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Signs and symbols: Writing systems (hieroglyphs, nail writing) and Signed Toki Pona; unofficial scripts too
Signoj kaj simboloj: Skribsistemoj (hieroglifoj, ungoskribado) kaj la Tokipona Signolingvo; ankaŭ por neoficialaj skribsistemoj
jan-ante
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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby jan-ante » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:05 pm


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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby jan Ote » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:40 am

Interesting results. It's an epic, so I expected high rank of 'wawa', 'utala' and 'sewi'. Moreover, it shows that this part of story is about 'soweli', 'sama', 'ma tomo'. The word 'lawa' has a higher rank (#22) than it would have in a good corpus (#33 on Maxim Solokhin's list). Also 'unpa' is more frequent than in other texts.

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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby janKipo » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:13 am

The corpus is still very small (relatively speaking) so most content items will fluctuate wildly (another dragon tale would boost 'akesi' for example -- isn't there a snake coming in Kikamesi?), but the relative importance of the structural words should be pretty stable (though 'li' may rise a bit when we get farther from first person accounts). The new words have also not been thoroughly introduced -- and retro'd -- which will make some small differences, as would catching what little there is in the way of spontaneous conversation.

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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby jan Ote » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:39 am


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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby janKipo » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:48 am

'ike lukin' ?

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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby jan Ote » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:34 pm


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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby jan-ante » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:27 pm

so, some more results today. but first a few word for google:
---
word frequencies in toki pona.
word rates in toki pona.
word abundances in toki pona.
---
when i tried google for these queries i got nothing, so i just want to improve google a little bit.
i analysed a new corpus from toki pona community in LJ and kama sona section of this forum (except gilgamesh). 2188 tp words and 71 proper name (including a handful of nanpa suli). i made a correlation plot of frequences of gilgamesh data versus this new one (i call it mixed). o lukin

Image
(to avoid log(0) problem and the data point overlapping, the value (1/5000)+(RAND/5000) was added to every data point)
we can see a big spread between 2 data sets. only a handful of words have a comparable frequences. presumably they comprise the topic-independent core of language: li e ni pi tomo tawa kama pilin... having this, i see no big reason to analyse a big corpus. this analysis could give the average results only, but they are impractical, because we have neither average topic, nor avreage people in tp community, everyone is bright individuality. so by minimal of two frequencies. jan Kipo can consider minimum as the logical function "and", e.g. in fuzzy logic. having this value high mean that the word is useful for both topics. pona is #26, pali is #32, pana is #50, poka is #54, poki is # 104. from this words, pali is the closest to the core group (variation factor is 1.34 only). unpa is the last in the list. in general topics, people hesitate to mention unpa and olin.
i think this method should be used to find the "best" words. what do you think?

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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby janKipo » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:36 pm

Hell, I'm just impressed by your getting the stats that fast. I think that after the first decile or so, the results will fluctuate for words down to about the last decile, when they settle down again (until we get over some hangups like on 'unpa') I just report my immediate intuitive assignment and preferences, to be fiddled by stats and hard facts.

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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby janJan » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:23 pm

I find this two-letter code quite enticing ; I had looked at a simple "remove the vowels" solution, saw that was not one to one, and, before trying to tackle that, I discovered your solution. Is there a current stable version for the table ?

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Re: A ranged possibility: two-letter codes

Postby janKipo » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:27 pm

Nothing official (obviously) but the last given seems to work OK. we just argue aesthetics: what code is "better" for what word, how far from the simple vowel drop is it permitted to go, and so on. Join with your taste or wait for a more thorough corpus scan (as if that would really decide anything).


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