A range of possibilities

Signs and symbols: Writing systems (hieroglyphs, nail writing) and Signed Toki Pona; unofficial scripts too
Signoj kaj simboloj: Skribsistemoj (hieroglifoj, ungoskribado) kaj la Tokipona Signolingvo; ankaŭ por neoficialaj skribsistemoj
jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby jan-ante » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:00 pm

janKipo wrote: I don't think a monosyllabic "dialect" is a good reason to used kanji etc.

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
nasin sitelen ni li wan e kulupu jan.

e.g., china. their dialects are more different than english and dutch languages. the habits and traditionsof these people are also more different than those between britain and holland. but they are considered as a single han nation. only becuse of hanzi. an itroduction of alphabet will prove the simple fact that glorious han nation does not exist. remarkably, ages ago thier language was monosyllabic, like classical chinese

jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby jan-ante » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:02 pm

janKipo wrote: I don't think a monosyllabic "dialect" is a good reason to used kanji etc.

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
nasin sitelen ni li wan e kulupu jan.

e.g., china. their dialects are more different than english and dutch languages. the habits and traditionsof these people are also more different than those between britain and holland. but they are considered as a single han nation. only becuse of hanzi. an itroduction of alphabet will prove the simple fact that glorious han nation does not exist. remarkably, ages ago thier language was monosyllabic, like classical chinese

jan_Pusa
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:18 pm
Location: ma tomo Keson, ma Pilipina
Contact:

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby jan_Pusa » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:49 am

jan Kipo o lukin e kulupu pi toki pona lon lipu Lajuna. mi sona e ni: mi sitelen e toki kepeken sitelen Katakana.

Also, while I do agree that Japanese systems are suitable, my personal preferences dictate that it's not perfect. I prefer syllabic systems that follow this rule: one syllable, one symbol. Much to my surprise, the writing system that best fits the rule is Hangeul...
olin jan li ike la ni li pakala mute.
Kung ang mahalin ka ay bawal, ito'y napakasakit.

jan_Niko
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:40 am
Location: ma Epelanto

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby jan_Niko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:30 pm

(Esperanta traduko sekvas.)

I like the idea of using Japanese kanji for most of the vocabulary, hiragana for the particles, and katakana for the loan adjectives. The kana are already perfectly usable for toki pona, although toki pona [l] would have to be represented by what in Japanese would be pronounced [ɽ], and [si] would have to be represented by the hiragana <し> or katakana <シ> (both read [ɕi]).

For example:

話好り話好。 = toki pona li toki pona.
人ソンヤり作え話好。 = jan Sonja li pali e toki pona.
お送え好行土。= o pana e pona tawa ma.
人ニコり話え話エペラント。= jan Niko li toki e toki Epelanto.

Here are a few other ideas for possible kanji representations of toki pona words:
一 = wan
ニ = tu
日 = suno
足 = noka
金 = mani
月 = mun
食 = moku
毛 = linja
家 = tomo

I am not a kanji expert, so all of the ones I have used so far are just possibilities. I can think of only one minor problem with this system: the symbol <ニ> would be ambiguous since it would represent both the syllable [ni] in foreign words and the word tu.

Due to toki pona's limited vocabulary it would be very easy to make a converter from the Roman orthography to the Japanese one and vice versa.

- jan Niko
__________________

Mi ŝatas la ideon uzi japanajn kanĝiojn por la plejparto de la vortostoko, hiraganaojn por la partikuloj, kaj katakanaojn por la fremdaj adjektivoj. La kanaoj jam perfekte uzeblas por Tokipono, kvankam la tokipona [l] devus reprezentiĝi per simboloj, kiuj japane eldiriĝas per [ɽ], kaj [si] devus reprezentiĝi per la hiraganaa <し> aŭ katakanaa <シ> (ambaŭ eldirataj kiel [ɕi]).

Ekzemple:

話好り話好。 = toki pona li toki pona.
人ソンヤり作え話好。 = jan Sonja li pali e toki pona.
お送え好行土。= o pana e pona tawa ma.
人ニコり話え話エペラント。= jan Niko li toki e toki Epelanto.

Jen kelkaj aliaj ideoj por eblaj kanĝiaj reprezentaĵoj de tokiponaj vortoj:
一 = wan
ニ = tu
日 = suno
足 = noka
金 = mani
月 = mun
食 = moku
毛 = linja
家 = tomo

Mi ne estas kompetentega pri kanĝioj, do tiuj, kiujn mi ĝis nun uzis estas nur eblaĵoj. Mi povas imagi nur unu malgrandan problemon pri ĉi tiu sistemo: la simbolo <ニ> estus malklara, ĉar ĝi reprezentus kaj la silabon [ni] en fremdaj vortoj kaj la vorton tu.

Pro la malgranda vortostoko de Tokipono, estus tre facile konstrui konvertilon por ŝanĝi la romian literumon al la japana kaj inverse.

-jan Niko

rdmiller3
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:41 pm
Location: Muskego, Wisconsin US
Contact:

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby rdmiller3 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:45 pm

A system which has kanji, hirigana and katakana is much more complex ("ike mute mute") than a system with only one set of kana.

I like this system:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/m ... kipona.gif
because it actually uses FEWER symbols than the latin-based Toki Pona alphabet.

jan-ante
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby jan-ante » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:02 pm

OL KOREKT
now a special proposal of quasi-logo-graphics which will preserve a phonetic structure of toki pona. i suggest to use a 2-letter codes for toki pona words, like country codes or airline codes:
nn st ni i po mt - nasin sitelen ni li pona mute. the separators and interjection "a" are coded with single letter codes
la - l
li - i
o - o
e - e
pi - @
benifits:
    * short phrases
    * quick typing
    * good for chat
    * ideal for SMS
nnstni i po tw ioto SMS
here "nasin sitelen ni" and "ilo toki" may be written without spaces as it is a single complex word but the separators (except @) should never be written like this, they should be written between spaces.
o kk e nnstsi lo tmtoni
o kepeken e nasin sitelen sin lon tomo toki ni
use new system in this forum

janKipo
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby janKipo » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:03 pm

Well, it won't do for everyday, but it would help on toki lili, where I keep running over my 140 character limit. Can you standardize the correspondences and still keep a little room for typo correction?

jan_Niko
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:40 am
Location: ma Epelanto

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby jan_Niko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:29 pm

jan rdmiller3 o, mi pilin sama sina. nasin sitelen Nijon li ike lon toki pona. taso tenpo pini la mi toki ala e ni: tenpo ale la jan o kepeken e nasin sitelen Nijon lon toki pona. mi pilin e ni: nasin sitelen ike li musi mute.

--jan Niko

jan_Pusa
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:18 pm
Location: ma tomo Keson, ma Pilipina
Contact:

Re: D prblm w/ xrthnded tki pna...

Postby jan_Pusa » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 pm

SMS shortcuts may be standardized to an extent, but I belive "nasin ante li pona tawa jan ante" could be applied here as some words may be subject to differences in interpretation, culture-wise or otherwise. I can interpret the sentence "nasin sitelen ni li pona tawa ilo toki lili" as "stln n l pna twa ilo tki li2", following Philippine SMS conventions. The keyword here is "flexibility".

m stln la jn ala l tki...
olin jan li ike la ni li pakala mute.
Kung ang mahalin ka ay bawal, ito'y napakasakit.

janTe
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:34 pm

Re: A range of possibilities

Postby janTe » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:59 am

jan-ante wrote:the second point is that for some words there are no kanji. these are la li o e pi.


Actually, although Japanese doesn't use kanji (Chinese characters) for its grammatical particles, Chinese does, so you could find kanji characters to represent those structural particles.

I would suggest:
la -- 地 (comes after adverbials, just like 'la')
li -- 其 (isn't used anymore, but could function like 'li' in Classical Chinese; I had to read up on Classical Chinese to find something that matched.)
o -- 哦 (an interjection pronounced like "o")
e -- 得 (comes after verbs, much like 'e')
pi -- 的 (kinda like 'pi', except backwards; In Chinese you'd say "A 的 B", where TP would say "B pi A".)

I'd also add:
a -- 啊 (an interjection pronounced and used just like "a")


Return to “sitelen toki”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest