How would you say "to show"

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jan Seloki
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:51 pm

How would you say "to show"

Postby jan Seloki » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:40 pm

Should "to show" be kama e lukin (cause to see) or ken e lukin (allow to see) or is there really a difference? In other words should " I'll show you a picture" be "mi kama e ni:sina li lukin e sitelen" or "mi ken e ni: sina lukin e sitelen".
人り有え人上ら人り要物無。
ین لی یو إ ین سوی لا ین لی ولی إیو ألا

.ין לי יו א ין סוי לה ין לי וילה ייו אלה

jan Jojanese
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Location: ma Onkon

Re: How would you say "to show"

Postby jan Jojanese » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:19 pm

"i'll show you a picture" - mi pana lukin e sitelen tawa sina
mi pilin pona tawa ijo mijomi ni

janKipo
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Re: How would you say "to show"

Postby janKipo » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:03 am

Well, the first two give the wrong notion since the direct object in a causative construction is the subject of the caused action so this is”cause or allow a view”, which misses the point a bit. The third, two-sentence, solution is safe. The last involves a new idiom but looks like it should work.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Re: How would you say "to show"

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:18 pm

jan Seloki wrote:Should "to show" be kama e lukin (cause to see) or ken e lukin (allow to see) or is there really a difference? In other words should " I'll show you a picture" be "mi kama e ni:sina li lukin e sitelen" or "mi ken e ni: sina lukin e sitelen".


"kama e lukin" and "ken e lukin" should work, but it's unnecessarily specific to me, whereas "pana e ijo tawa lukin" works for me all the time: "mi pana e sitelen tawa lukin sina".
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona (mi sitelen e lipu ni pi toki pona)
mi jan Tepan. mi pu. mi weka e jan nasa Kipo e jan nasa Lope.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Location: Berlin

Re: How would you say "to show"

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:27 pm

jan Jojanese wrote:"i'll show you a picture" - mi pana lukin e sitelen tawa sina


"pana lukin" reflects the speaker's need to have one string of words ("pana lukin") for one vocabulary item ("show"). It does stretch "lukin" as a modifier though, as "showing" is none of "gift of the eye", "eye-giving" (which would be "seeing") or "visually giving". I prefer "pana e ijo tawa lukin", because it leverages Toki Pona's precision and doesn't resort to calque-guess-work behind a stretched usage of a modifier. ("pana lukin e ijo" would still be understood.)

"mi pana e sitelen tawa lukin sina."
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona (mi sitelen e lipu ni pi toki pona)
mi jan Tepan. mi pu. mi weka e jan nasa Kipo e jan nasa Lope.


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