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Toki Pona Forums • Wrong place name pronunciation
Page 1 of 1

Wrong place name pronunciation

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:44 am
by KNTRO

Re: Wrong place name pronunciation

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:46 am
by janKipo
About your footpiece, probably 'sina toki kepeken toki Epanja' "You speak Spanish", not "You are the Spanish language" as you wrote.

x is a velar fricative,which offers the choice of a velar sound, k, or a frictive s. Sonja chose s, possibly influenced by the fact that it was until recently pronounced sh and still is in parts of Mexico. The argument for k is a good one but lacks side argumentsother than English usage, which struggle to avoid.

Re: Wrong place name pronunciation

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:20 pm
by KNTRO

Re: Wrong place name pronunciation

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:21 pm
by janKipo
No, we try to avoid English input and arguments that veer close to English are automatically suspect. So the case for/s/ is that it is a fricative, like /x/, is a sibilant like /x/used to be and still is in parts of Mexico (admittedly not parts where Spanish is dominant, but the "Mexico" is not basically a Spanish word), while /k/ is properly velar but plays to an Anglo preference. ("Texas" fares worse, with many folks preferring 'Tejas', which has only spelling, but not either Anglo spelling nor pronunciation.

Re: Wrong place name pronunciation

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:12 pm
by KNTRO

Re: Wrong place name pronunciation

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:48 pm
by janKipo
But in the old Spanish, they were pronounced Shavier, Meshiko, and Teshas. So, back to Sonja’s side again. To the practical point, modern Spanish /x/ offers a choice for toki pona, /k/ for its velarity or /s/ for its fricativity. There is, at that point, no decisive reason for one rather than the other, so you use subjective factors. I don’t know Sonja’s subjective source here; maybe it’s just that ‘Mesiko’ “sounds better” than ‘Mekiko’ (it does to me). In any case, we are, as you note, stuck with it.