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Re: Genesis 1 translation

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:23 am
by janKipo
Nice and nicely compact after all the details.
2:1 ‘ali pi lon sewi en ma’
still think ‘lape’ is excessive, but that is fussiness.

Re: Genesis 1 translation

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:59 pm
by janTepanNetaPelin
jan Wiko o,

pona! mi lukin e sitelen sina. mi toki e ijo ona.

jan wiko wrote:open wan

→ open nanpa wan

jan wiko wrote:ona li tu e telo pi lon anpa

sina jan pu. sina wile toki e ni: "ona li tu e telo. telo ni li lon anpa", la sina ken ala kepeken nimi "telo pi lon anpa". jan Kipo taso li ken pali e ni tan ni: ona li pu ala li kepeken toki pona pi ona wan taso.

sina ken toki e ni: "ona li tu e telo anpa tan telo sewi."
ken la sina ken toki e ni a: "ona li tu e telo ni: ona li lon anpa, tan telo ni: ona li lon sewi."

jan wiko wrote:telo anpa o kulupu.

"kulupu" li "jan mute". (jan mute pi toki pona li kepeken nimi "kulupu" li wile toki e kon pi nimi "kama wan". tawa sona mi la jan pu li toki ni ala.) ken la sina ken toki e ni: "telo anpa o kama wan."

jan wiko wrote:sewi li pana e nimi "ma" tawa telo ala.

nimi "pana e nimi ... tawa" li pona tawa mi. sina kepeken ona, la sina ken a kepeken ona lon nimi "pana e nimi tawa suno, tawa pimeja", lon nimi "pana e nimi tawa selo".

jan wiko wrote:ma o pana e kasi

→ ma o pana e kasi lili

jan wiko wrote:kasi ante pi jo kiwen

a, mi kama sona e kon pi nimi sina! taso "kasi pi jo kiwen" li nasa lili li sama *"kasi pi jo e kiwen" tawa mi. (taso jan li ken lukin e nimi "kasi pi jo kiwen" li ken kama ala lukin e pakala.) sin la mi sona ala e ni: nimi "kiwen" li ken jo e kon pi nimi "insa kiwen kili/pan"/"kiwen lili pi insa kili/pan" anu seme.

jan wiko wrote:tempo suno

→ tenpo suno

tenpo suno ni la ni li ale. sina wile, la mi ken awen pona e sitelen sina ni.

mi tawa.

Re: Genesis 1 translation

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:21 pm
by janKipo
My previous remarks having disappeared, let me try again.

Sorry, Tepan, but using prepositional phrases to modify nouns is as old as can be and it has been adapted to the ‘pi’ rule for at least half a decade, if not longer. That pu never uses the construction and so never needs to apply the rule (which it doesn’t notice in other contexts) is o evidence that it is wrong, even for puers. The language restricted to pu is a pretty sparse language indeed. But we know that Sonja thinks of it as much larger and along pretty much these lines, though she often has trouble formulating what she wants (the ‘jan pi li lasa e waso telo’ structure, for example, which she gave up but did not take up the obvious -- and common -- ‘jan pi alasa pi waso telo’).

Speaking of unpu, you in. fact cannot say "ona li tu e telo ni: ona li lon anpa, tan telo ni: ona li lon sewi.” because it is neither a sentence nor a string of sentences. In short, ou cannot embed a display inside a sentence then continue the sentence after it (this violate the antirecursion clause). I don’t know a handy way to do this legally, maybe ‘ ona li tu e wan telo tan wan ane telo. wan li anpa. ante li sewi’, which loses some zip.

I agree there are better ways to say “plants having seeds” than ‘kasi pi jo kiwen’ but it is perfectly legitimate. To be sure, it comes from ‘kasi li jo e kiwen’, but that is just the case with all modifiers: ‘kasi laso’ come from ‘kasi li laso’ and so on. Tepan doesn’t do derivations, whih may be why some things he says are a little forced.