Verb vs. Predicate

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
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jan_Lope
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Re: Verb vs. Predicate

Postby jan_Lope » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:00 am

jan Ne wrote:Her use of the terms adjective and verb in the book was probably to make it so that it's accessible to everyone, even people who haven't studied a lot of grammar.


jan Ne o, toki!

I think most people who deal with languages know about the difference between adjective and verb.

jan lape = sleep-person, sleeping person - "lape" is an adjective here.

ona li lape. = He is sleeping. - "lape" is an intransitive verb here.
(But it could also mean "It's sleep." - "lape" is an predicate noun here.)


BTW: As I have stressed several times, I keep as close as possible to the descriptions in pu and not to drafts in forum posts.
pona!
jan Lope
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(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Re: Verb vs. Predicate

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:01 am

jan Ne wrote:Her use of the terms adjective and verb in the book was probably to make it so that it's accessible to everyone, even people who haven't studied a lot of grammar.


Very likely.
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona (mi sitelen e lipu ni pi toki pona)
mi jan Tepan. mi pu. mi weka e jan nasa Kipo e jan nasa Lope.

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Re: Verb vs. Predicate

Postby jan_Lope » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:40 am

janTepanNetaPelin wrote:
jan Ne wrote:Her use of the terms adjective and verb in the book was probably to make it so that it's accessible to everyone, even people who haven't studied a lot of grammar.


Very likely.


Those who do not deal with grammar will not be able to learn a foreign language well.

Anyone who talks about grammar in forums should have dealt with the basic grammar terms, for example with the parts of a sentence (subject phrase, predicate phrase, ...) and with the type of words (noun, pronouns, adjectives, verbs, auxiliary verbs, adverbs, ....).

Unfortunately Sonja did not always describe the grammar of Toki Pona clearly and exactly. This has led to a lot of confusion.
pona!
jan Lope
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(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

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Re: Verb vs. Predicate

Postby jan_Lope » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:20 am

jan Ne o, toki!

jan Ne wrote:Before pu, Sonja had recognized that the line between verb and adjective in toki pona is a little blurred:
(viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37)


That may be so. But what does it matter now?
Pje's lessons were more specific.

jan Ne wrote:Her use of the terms adjective and verb in the book was to make it so that it's accessible to everyone, even people who haven't studied a lot of grammar


Unfortunately, these inaccuracies bring more inaccuracies.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent spamming.

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jan_Lope
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Re: Verb vs. Predicate

Postby jan_Lope » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:06 am

toki!

I've updated my lessons: Chapter "Negation, Yes/No Questions" Yes/No questions are now defined not only with VERB ala VERB, but generally with PREDICATE ala PREDICATE.

https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https:// ... 0000000000

Quote:

An Predicate Noun as Subject of the Question

We had already learned the difference between verb and predicate. In Toki Pona are sentences without verb possible. Then nouns serve as predicate nouns or adjectives as predicate adjectives.

In the lessons of B. J. Knight (2003) and the official Toki Pona book of Sonja Lang [15] yes/no questions with ala are defined only with verbs. But this contradicts their own examples as well as common practice. For example one cannot formulate the question 'Is she a mother? In these lessons I will therefore not adhere to this limitation.

If the yes/no question refers to a predicate noun, the adjective ala is added to it and the predicate noun is repeated.

ona li ' mama ala ' mama ? Is she a parent?
ni li ' jan ala ' jan? Is this a person?
ni li ' kili ala ' kili? Is this a banana?
ni li ' tomo pi telo nasa ala ' tomo pi telo nasa? Is this a pub?
ona li ' jan pi pona lukin ala ' jan pi pona lukin? Is she an attractive person?

An Predicate Adjective as Subject of the Question

If the yes/no question refers to a predicate adjective, the adjective ala is added to it and the predicate adjective is repeated.

sina ' pona ala ' pona? Are you OK?
mi ' pona ala ' pona, tawa sina? Do you like me?
suno li ' suli ala ' suli? Is the sun big?
len sina li ' telo ala ' telo? Are your clothes wet?
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent spamming.


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