meli lili pi len loje

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
jan_Lope
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Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby jan_Lope » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:34 am

jan Same wrote:jan Lope o toki!
I tried to modify the “pi sequence” without the double “pi”:
...
I find that these correction are making things a lot less clearer than they were before (or maybe I'm not doing this the right way?)
It's true that I've had a bad habit of nesting pi's.

I want this text to be for people learning toki pona, so if possible I want it to be the most grammatical correct.
(I'm also going to change the “suli suli” to “pi suli mute”.)

What do you think?


jan Same o, toki!

Remember: Toki Pona is the language of simplicity. Keep your thoughts and sentences as simple as possible!

Please put your whole text with your correction here. Can I use your text for my lessons as an example?

BTW: A comma after (or before) "la" is not necessary because "la" is an separator.

pona!
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

janKipo
Posts: 2825
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby janKipo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:11 am

Always nice to be able to agree with everything Lope says (also very rare). I fear he may use your work for examples of bad tp, but even that helps.

jan Same
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:41 am

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby jan Same » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:05 pm

jan Lope, I give you the authorization to use my text in your lesson.
(If I can help others learn the language, I don't see why I wouldn't accept.) :)

As for my text,
I'll try to be simplify things a bit, so that I don't abuse the use of "pi".
I also remove the commas after the “la”
(I liked to put theme there, even though I know it's not necessary. Just thought it helped make the sentences clearer.)

I'm having a very busy week, I'll try to post a corrected version in the next few days.

jan Same
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:41 am

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby jan Same » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:17 am

toki! Here's the new version :
------------

tenpo la meli lili li lon.

meli lili ni li pona tawa jan ali.
nanpa lawa la meli lili li pona mute tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli ona li pana e ali tawa ona.

tenpo pini la mama mama meli li pana e len loje tawa meli lili ona.
meli lili li kepeken len ni la meli lili li kama pona lukin.
tenpo ni la meli lili li wile ala e len sin.
meli lili li wile e len loje ni taso.
tenpo kama ali la ona li jo e nimi: “meli lili pi len loje”.

sike suno ante la mama meli pi meli lili li toki e ni:
“jan lili mi o kama! ni li moku.
o pana e moku ni tawa mama mama meli sina.
ona li pilin ike. o pana e moku ni la ona li kama pilin pona.
o tawa!
taso, o tawa wawa ala tan ni: moku li anpa la mama mama meli sina li jo ala e moku.
mi wile e ni: sina tawa kepeken tenpo mute.
insa tomo mama mama sina la o toki e «toki!» tawa ona.”

meli lili li toki: “tenpo kama la mi tawa pona”.

mama mama meli pi meli lili li lon ma pi kasi suli.
meli lili li lon open pi ma kasi ni.
tenpo ni la soweli li kama.
meli lili li sona ala e ni: ona li ike mute.
meli lili li monsuta ala tan ni.

soweli li toki: “meli lili pi len loje o, toki!”

- “soweli o, ni li pona tawa mi”

- “sina li insa ma pi kasi suli tan seme?”

- “mi tawa mama mama meli mi”

- “insa pi len ona li jo seme ?”

- “ijo moku. tenpo suno pini la mi mute li pali e moku suwi.
mi mute li pali e moku tan ni: mama mama meli mi li pilin ike.”

- “mama mama meli sina li lon seme?”

- “mama mama meli mi li lon insa pi ma kasi ni.
tomo ona li lon poka pi kasi kili pimeja.
jan ali li sona e ni.”

soweli ike li pilin e ni:
“meli lili li pona lukin, ona li moku pi pona mute tawa mi.
mama mama meli ona li moku pi pona lili tawa mi.
mi wile e ni: mi moku e meli lili en mama mama meli.”

soweli en meli li tawa. soweli li tawa lon poka meli lili.
soweli li toki:
“o lukin! kasi kule li pona lukin lon ma pi kasi suli ni.
ken la sina li ken lukin.
a! sina o kute e kalama musi waso. kalama ni, li pona mute.
sina li tawa wawa lon nasin ni. ken la sina li ken tawa kepeken tenpo mute.
ken la sina li ken weka tan nasin. o weka lon ma pi kasi suli. o lukin e waso en kasi.
mi pilin e ni: ni li kama pona mute tawa sina.”

meli lili pi len loje li lawa e oko ona.
ona li lukin e suno lon kasi e waso e kule pi ma kasi ni.
ona lili li toki:
“ken la mi ken pana e kasi kule tawa mama mama meli mi.
ken la ona li pilin e ni: «kasi kule li pona tawa mi!»,
mi jo e tenpo mute, mi ken kepeken tenpo mute.”

meli lili pi len loje li weka tan nasin. ona li tawa lon ma pi kasi suli.

tenpo sama la soweli ike li tawa wawa kepeken tenpo lili.
ona li tawa tomo pi mama mama meli.
ona li kalama e supa lupa tomo pi mama mama meli.

mama mama meli li toki: “jan seme li lon?”

soweli li toki: “meli lili pi len loje li lon, mi jo e moku suwi en moku telo! o open e lupa!”

mama mama meli li toki: “a! sina ken open e lupa. mi wawa ala, mi ken ala open e lupa.”

soweli li open e lupa li kama insa. soweli li toki ala li tawa supa lape pi mama mama meli.
ona li moku e ali pi mama mama meli.
tenpo kama la soweli ike li len e sama kepeken len pi mama mama meli li kama insa supa lape.

tenpo sama la meli lili li pilin e ni:
“a ike! mi kepeken tenpo pi mute mute a! tenpo ni la mi jo e tenpo ala!
mi tawa tomo mama mama mi!”

---- (part 2) ----

meli lili li kama lon sinpin pi tomo mama mama meli ona.
tenpo ni la lupa li open. tan ni la oko pi meli lili li open mute.
meli lili li kama insa tomo li pilin nasa li toki:
“tenpo ante la lon poka mama mama mi la mi pilin pona. taso, tenpo ni la mi pilin nasa mute.”
meli lili li toki: “toki!” taso, jan ala li toki tawa ona.
tan ni la meli lili tawa supa lape.
lon ni la mama mama meli pi meli lili li lape. lawa ona li lon anpa len. ona li nasa lukin mute.

meli lili li toki: “a! mama mama o! sina li jo e nena kute pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken kute pona e sina.”

meli lili li toki:“taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e oko pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken lukin pona e sina.”

meli lili li toki:“taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e luka pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken luka e sina”

meli lili li toki:“a! taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e uta pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “a! kepeken ni la mi ken moku pona e sina!”

soweli li toki e ni la ona li kama wawa tan supa lape. ona li moku e meli lili ali.

tenpo moku pini la ona li kama lon supa lape li lape. soweli li lape la ona li kalama lape mute.

tenpo sama la jan alasa li tawa lon poka tomo.
jan alasa li pilin e ni: “meli pi tomo ni li kalama mute. ken la sina wile ijo”.
jan alasa li kama insa tomo. ona li kama lukin e soweli lape.

jan alasa li toki: “a! soweli ike o! sina li lon ni tan seme a?! tenpo suli la mi wile moli e sina!”
jan alasa li wile kepeken ilo moli tawa soweli. taso, ona li kama pilin e ni: ken la mama mama meli li lon insa soweli. ken la tenpo ni la mama mama li moli ala.
tan ni la ona li kepeken ala ilo moli. ona li kepeken ilo kipisi.
ona li kipisi e sijelo pi soweli lape.

insa pi soweli ike li kama tu la jan alasa li lukin e meli lili pi len loje.
ona li kama tan sijelo pi soweli ike. meli lili li toki: “a! mi monsuta mute! soweli insa li pimeja mute!”
mama mama meli li kama kin.
tenpo kama la meli lili li alasa e kiwen mute mute. ona li pana e kiwen insa soweli ike.
soweli ike li kama lape ala la ona li wile tawa wawa. taso, insa pi soweli ike li jo e kiwen mute.
tan ni la ona li ken ala tawa li kama moli.

soweli li moli la jan tu wan li kama pilin pona.

jan alasa li kipisi li kama jo e selo soweli. jan alasa li tawa tomo ona.
mama mama li moku e moku suwi e telo pi meli lili.
meli lili pi len loje li pilin e ni:
“tenpo kama ali la mi awen lon nasin pi ma kasi ni.
tenpo ali kama la mi weka ala tan nasin.
mama mi li toki e lawa la mi weka ala lon ma pi kasi suli.”

tenpo ante la meli lili li pana kin e moku tawa mama mama sina.
ona li tawa lon nasin sama. soweli ike ante li lon nasin ni kin.
soweli li wile ike. taso, meli lili pi len loje li sona pona.
meli lili li tawa wawa li lukin ala e soweli ike.

lon tomo pi mama mama sina la meli lili li toki e ijo pi soweli ike sin tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli li toki: “a, o pake e supa lupa pi tomo mi. mi wile ala e ni: soweli ike li kama lon insa.”
tenpo kama la soweli li kalama e supa lupa tomo pi mama mama meli.
soweli ike li toki: “o open! mi meli lili pi len loje! mi pana e moku suwi!
taso meli lili en mama mama meli li toki ala.
tan ni la soweli li sike e tomo li kama lon lawa tomo.

ona li wile awen e tenpo pimeja.
ona li wile e ni: lon tenpo pimeja la meli lili li kama tan tomo la soweli li moku e ona.
taso, mama mama meli li sona e ni.

lon sinpin tomo la lupa kiwen suli li lon.
mama mama meli li toki:
“tenpo suno pini la mi pali e moku kepeken telo seli.
meli lili o pana e telo seli pi moku mi, kepeken poki lili.
o pana e telo seli ni lon insa pi lupa kiwen suli.”

meli lili pi len loje li pana e telo seli tawa lupa kiwen suli.
lupa kiwen suli li kama jo e telo mute.
kon pi telo seli li sama moku pi tenpo suno pini.

soweli ike li pilin e kon.
ona li kama tawa lupa kiwen suli.
soweli ike li lukin e insa pi lupa kiwen suli.
lawa pi soweli ike li tawa anpa. taso, noka ona li ken ala awen lon open pi lupa kiwen suli.

soweli ike li tawa anpa wawa li kama insa telo mute.
soweli ike li moli lon telo.

tan ni la meli lili pi len loje li pilin pona li tawa tomo ona.

tan ni la tenpo ali la ike li kama ala tawa ona.

-----

What do you think?

Once all the errors have been corrected,
I want to create good looking PDFs of “meli lili pi len loje” in three different versions :

• one standard version (alphabet)
• one sitelen pona version
• and one sitelen sitelen version (which would make this the first toki pona story to be entirely written in sitelen sitelen)

I'll then post these on the facebook page and reddit.
Worry not, your names will be in the credits (After all, you've helped me so much).
I know it's ambitious, but I think the result will be cool :)

janKipo
Posts: 2825
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby janKipo » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:13 pm

Very nice but you may have overLope'd it a bit. Long 'pi' strings are ugly but you can't just toss the 'pi's and hope to get the same results. Also, 'insa' (and the other position words) are still nouns, not prepositions, so you need 'lon' (usually) with them and noun phrases attach with 'pi'. You drop the 'lon' especially after 'kama', but the wolf and LRRHand all don't become the inside, they become on the inside.
In the beginning there are a lot of repetitions of 'meli lili' whee 'ona' would work as well (or better, stylistically) or ''ona meli/jan' if you're worried about mixing her up with her cloak, etc.
In line 13, I'm not sure you can have an imperative in a 'la' clause; probably should stick with just 'sina'.
Describing where the house is, I'm afraid you have to do the whole 'poka pi ma pi quasi pi kili pimeja' or change the description altogether.
Minor stuff:
left out a 'Ii' after 'meli lili' (and haven't we all?)
omitted 'e' between 'wile' and 'ijo'
probably still need 'pi' before 'mute mute'
We need to figure out those temporal 'la' phrases; I don't know whether it is 'tempo kama Ali' or 'tempo Ali kama'. At least your right half the time probably.

This probably isn't ready for carving in stone, but it is right up there, maybe where it needs new eyes (not Lope's, who will undo something good along the line).
Thanks for the continuing effort.

jan Same
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:41 am

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby jan Same » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:28 am

New version:
------------

tenpo la meli lili li lon.

meli lili ni li pona tawa jan ali.
nanpa lawa la meli lili li pona mute tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli ona li pana e ali tawa ona.

tenpo pini la mama mama meli li pana e len loje tawa meli lili ona.
meli lili li kepeken len ni la ona li kama pona lukin.
tenpo ni la meli lili li wile ala e len sin.
ona li wile e len loje ni taso.
tenpo kama ali la ona li jo e nimi: “meli lili pi len loje”.

sike suno ante la mama meli pi meli lili li toki e ni:
“jan lili mi o kama! ni li moku.
o pana e moku ni tawa mama mama meli sina.
ona li pilin ike. sina pana e moku ni la ona li kama pilin pona.
o tawa!
taso, o tawa wawa ala tan ni: moku li anpa la mama mama meli sina li jo ala e moku.
mi wile e ni: sina tawa kepeken tenpo mute.
lon insa pi tomo mama mama sina la o toki e «toki!» tawa ona.”

meli lili li toki: “tenpo kama la mi tawa pona”.

mama mama meli pi meli lili li lon ma pi kasi suli.
meli lili li lon open pi ma kasi ni.
tenpo ni la soweli li kama.
meli lili li sona ala e ni: ona li ike mute.
meli lili li monsuta ala tan ni.

soweli li toki: “meli lili pi len loje o, toki!”

- “soweli o, ni li pona tawa mi”

- “sina li lon insa pi ma kasi ni tan seme?”

- “mi tawa mama mama meli mi”

- “lon insa pi len ona li jo seme ?”

- “ijo moku. tenpo suno pini la mi mute li pali e moku suwi.
mi mute li pali e moku tan ni: mama mama meli mi li pilin ike.”

- “mama mama meli sina li lon seme?”

- “jan ali li sona e ni.
mama mama meli mi li lon insa pi ma kasi ni.
tomo ona li lon poka pi kasi suli. kasi suli ni li jo e kili pimeja mute.”

soweli ike li pilin e ni:
“meli lili li pona lukin, ona li moku pi pona mute tawa mi.
mama mama meli ona li moku pi pona lili tawa mi.
mi wile e ni: mi moku e meli lili en mama mama meli.”

soweli en meli li tawa. soweli li tawa lon poka meli lili.
soweli li toki:
“o lukin! kasi kule li pona lukin lon ma pi kasi suli ni.
ken la sina li ken lukin.
a! sina o kute e kalama musi waso. kalama ni, li pona mute.
sina li tawa wawa lon nasin ni. ken la sina li ken tawa kepeken tenpo mute.
ken la sina li ken weka tan nasin. o weka lon ma pi kasi suli. o lukin e waso en kasi.
mi pilin e ni: ni li kama pona mute tawa sina.”

meli lili pi len loje li lawa e oko ona.
ona li lukin e suno lon kasi e waso e kule pi ma kasi ni.
ona lili li toki:
“ken la mi ken pana e kasi kule tawa mama mama meli mi.
ken la ona li pilin e ni: «kasi kule li pona tawa mi!»,
mi jo e tenpo mute, mi ken kepeken tenpo mute.”

meli lili pi len loje li weka tan nasin. ona li tawa lon ma pi kasi suli.

tenpo sama la soweli ike li tawa wawa kepeken tenpo lili.
ona li tawa tomo pi mama mama meli.
ona li kalama e supa lupa tomo pi mama mama meli.

mama mama meli li toki: “jan seme li lon?”

soweli li toki: “meli lili pi len loje li lon, mi jo e moku suwi en moku telo! o open e lupa!”

mama mama meli li toki: “a! sina ken open e lupa. mi wawa ala, mi ken ala open e lupa.”

soweli li open e lupa li kama lon insa. soweli li toki ala li tawa supa lape pi mama mama meli.
ona li moku e ali pi mama mama meli.
tenpo kama la soweli ike li len e sama kepeken len pi mama mama meli li kama insa supa lape.

tenpo sama la meli lili li pilin e ni:
“a ike! mi kepeken tenpo pi mute mute a! tenpo ni la mi jo e tenpo ala!
mi tawa tomo mama mama mi!”

---- part 2 ----

meli lili li kama lon sinpin pi tomo mama mama meli ona.
tenpo ni la lupa li open. tan ni la oko pi meli lili li open mute.
meli lili li kama lon insa tomo li pilin nasa li toki:
“tenpo ante la lon poka mama mama mi la mi pilin pona. taso, tenpo ni la mi pilin nasa mute.”
meli lili li toki: “toki!” taso, jan ala li toki tawa ona.
tan ni la meli lili li tawa supa lape.
lon ni la mama mama meli pi meli lili li lape. lawa ona li lon anpa len. ona li nasa lukin mute.

meli lili li toki: “a! mama mama o! sina li jo e nena kute pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken kute pona e sina.”

meli lili li toki:“taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e oko pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken lukin pona e sina.”

meli lili li toki:“taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e luka pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken luka e sina”

meli lili li toki:“a! taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e uta pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “a! kepeken ni la mi ken moku pona e sina!”

soweli li toki e ni la ona li kama wawa tan supa lape. ona li moku e meli lili ali.

tenpo moku pini la ona li kama lon supa lape li lape. soweli li lape la ona li kalama lape mute.

tenpo sama la jan alasa li tawa lon poka tomo.
jan alasa li pilin e ni: “meli pi tomo ni li kalama mute. ken la sina wile e ijo”.
jan alasa li kama lon insa tomo. ona li kama lukin e soweli lape.

jan alasa li toki: “a! soweli ike o! sina li lon ni tan seme a?! tenpo suli la mi wile moli e sina!”
jan alasa li wile kepeken ilo moli tawa soweli. taso, ona li kama pilin e ni: ken la mama mama meli li lon insa soweli. ken la tenpo ni la mama mama li moli ala.
tan ni la ona li kepeken ala ilo moli. ona li kepeken ilo kipisi.
ona li kipisi e sijelo pi soweli lape.

insa pi soweli ike li kama tu la jan alasa li lukin e meli lili pi len loje.
ona li kama tan sijelo pi soweli ike. meli lili li toki: “a! mi monsuta mute! lon insa soweli li pimeja mute!”
mama mama meli li kama kin.
tenpo kama la meli lili li alasa e kiwen mute. ona li pana e kiwen lon insa pi soweli ike.
soweli ike li kama lape ala la ona li wile tawa wawa. taso, lon insa pi soweli ike li jo e kiwen mute.
tan ni la ona li ken ala tawa li kama moli.

soweli li moli la jan tu wan li kama pilin pona.

jan alasa li kipisi li kama jo e selo soweli. jan alasa li tawa tomo ona.
mama mama li moku e moku suwi e telo pi meli lili.
meli lili pi len loje li pilin e ni:
“tenpo kama ali la mi awen lon nasin pi ma kasi ni.
tenpo kama ali la mi weka ala tan nasin.
mama mi li toki e lawa la mi weka ala lon ma pi kasi suli.”

tenpo ante la meli lili li pana kin e moku tawa mama mama sina.
ona li tawa lon nasin sama. soweli ike ante li lon nasin ni kin.
soweli li wile ike. taso, meli lili pi len loje li sona pona.
meli lili li tawa wawa li lukin ala e soweli ike.

lon tomo pi mama mama sina la meli lili li toki e ijo pi soweli ike sin tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli li toki: “a, o pake e supa lupa pi tomo mi. mi wile ala e ni: soweli ike li kama lon insa.”
tenpo kama la soweli li kalama e supa lupa tomo pi mama mama meli.
soweli ike li toki: “o open! mi meli lili pi len loje! mi pana e moku suwi!
taso meli lili en mama mama meli li toki ala.
tan ni la soweli li sike e tomo li kama lon lawa tomo.

ona li wile awen e tenpo pimeja.
ona li wile e ni: lon tenpo pimeja la meli lili li kama tan tomo la soweli li moku e ona.
taso, mama mama meli li sona e ni.

lon sinpin tomo la lupa kiwen suli li lon.
mama mama meli li toki:
“tenpo suno pini la mi pali e moku kepeken telo seli.
meli lili o pana e telo seli pi moku mi, kepeken poki lili.
o pana e telo seli ni lon insa pi lupa kiwen suli.”

meli lili pi len loje li pana e telo seli tawa lupa kiwen suli.
lupa kiwen suli li kama jo e telo mute.
kon pi telo seli li sama moku pi tenpo suno pini.

soweli ike li pilin e kon.
ona li kama tawa lupa kiwen suli.
soweli ike li lukin lon insa pi lupa kiwen suli.
lawa pi soweli ike li tawa anpa. taso, noka ona li ken ala awen lon open pi lupa kiwen suli.

soweli ike li tawa anpa wawa li kama lon insa pi telo mute.
soweli ike li moli lon telo.

tan ni la meli lili pi len loje li pilin pona li tawa tomo ona.

tan ni la tenpo ali la ike li kama ala tawa ona.

janKipo
Posts: 2825
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby janKipo » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:58 am

“(lon?) insa pi len ona LA SINA jo E seme ?” or “[lon] insa pi len ona li jo E seme ?”
ona li moku pi pona mute PI tawa mi.
mama mama meli ona li moku pi pona lili PI tawa mi.
ken la sina [li] ken lukin.
sina [li] ken tawa kepeken tenpo mute. And several other places
kama LON insa PI supa lape.
mi tawa tomo PI mama mama mi!”
(lon?) poka PI mama mama mi

'lawa ona li lon anpa len' Just spotted this "under the covers", not "at the bottom of the cloth" which is how I read it before and was puzzled but thought you had something specific in mind. I think it will puzzle others, too. I suppose the most totally accurate way to put it is 'lon insa pi selo pi supa lape' but that is longwinded and probably as obscure as the original.

ken la sina wile E ijo
kiwen PI mute mute (but this is in dispute)
pana e kiwen LON insa PI soweli ike.
soweli ike ante KIN li lon nasin ni [kin].
kama LON insa PI telo mute.

jan_Lope
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Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby jan_Lope » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:50 am

jan Same wrote:New version:
------------

tenpo la meli lili li lon.

meli lili ni li pona tawa jan ali.
nanpa lawa la meli lili li pona mute tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli ona li pana e ali tawa ona.
...


jan Same o, toki!

mama mama meli ona = her motherly mother
mama meli pi mama ona = her grandmother

meli lili ni li pona, tawa jan ali.
nanpa lawa la meli lili li pona mute, tawa mama meli pi mama ona.
mama meli pi mama ona li pana e ali, tawa ona.
...

A comma before a preposition improves readability.

pona!
Last edited by jan_Lope on Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
pona!
jan Lope
https://jan-lope.github.io
(Lessons and the Toki Pona Parser - A tool for spelling, grammar check and ambiguity check of Toki Pona)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of permanent, rude spamming.

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby janKipo » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:51 am

Well, Lope is being overly fussy (even by my standards) here: 'mama mama' can mean "parent's parent" as well as "parental parent". His longer version more or less avoids an ambiguity but creates others, so is o great improvement. I do like the fact that he pretty much insists on commas before final PPs, although he forgot the last one. They do avoid some nasty ambiguities.

jan Same
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:41 am

Re: meli lili pi len loje

Postby jan Same » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:52 pm

toki!
It's hard pleasing everyone, but here the new version.
I tried replacing “mama mama meli” with “mama meli pi mama ona” but I didn't like the result, it felt too impersonal and analytic.
I added lots of commas for readability and added a explanations inside brackets (just to clear up misunderstandings)
I hope you'll like the new version :

----------------

tenpo la meli lili li lon.

meli lili ni li pona, tawa jan ali.
nanpa lawa la meli lili li pona mute, tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli ona li mama meli pi mama ona.
mama mama meli ona li pana e ali, tawa ona.

tenpo pini la mama mama meli li pana e len loje, tawa meli lili ona.
meli lili li kepeken len ni la ona li kama pona lukin.
tenpo ni la meli lili li wile ala e len sin.
ona li wile e len loje ni taso.
tenpo kama ali la ona li jo e nimi: “meli lili pi len loje”.

sike suno ante la mama meli pi meli lili li toki e ni:
“jan lili mi o kama! ni li moku.
o pana e moku ni, tawa mama mama meli sina.
ona li pilin ike. sina pana e moku ni la ona li kama pilin pona.
o tawa!
taso, o tawa wawa ala tan ni: moku li anpa la mama mama meli sina li jo ala e moku.
mi wile e ni: sina tawa, kepeken tenpo mute.
lon insa pi tomo mama mama sina la o toki e «toki!» tawa ona.”

meli lili li toki: “tenpo kama la mi tawa pona”.

mama mama meli pi meli lili li lon ma pi kasi suli.
meli lili li lon open pi ma kasi ni.
tenpo ni la soweli li kama.
meli lili li sona ala e ni: ona li ike mute.
meli lili li monsuta ala tan ni.

soweli li toki: “meli lili pi len loje o, toki!”

- “soweli o, ni li pona tawa mi”

- “sina li lon insa pi ma kasi ni tan seme?”

- “mi tawa mama mama meli mi”

- “lon insa pi len sina li jo e seme ?”

- “ijo moku. tenpo suno pini la mi mute li pali e moku suwi.
mi mute li pali e moku tan ni: mama mama meli mi li pilin ike.”

- “mama mama meli sina li lon seme?”

- “jan ali li sona e ni.
mama mama meli mi li lon insa pi ma kasi ni.
tomo ona li lon poka pi kasi suli. kasi suli ni li jo e kili pimeja mute.”

soweli ike li pilin e ni:
“meli lili li pona lukin, ona li moku pi pona mute, tawa mi.
mama mama meli ona li moku pi pona lili, tawa mi.
mi wile e ni: mi moku e meli lili en mama mama meli.”

soweli en meli li tawa. soweli li tawa, lon poka meli lili.
soweli li toki:
“o lukin! kasi kule li pona lukin, lon ma pi kasi suli ni.
ken la sina ken lukin.
a! sina o kute e kalama musi waso. kalama ni, li pona mute.
sina tawa wawa lon nasin ni. ken la sina ken tawa, kepeken tenpo mute.
ken la sina ken weka, tan nasin. o weka lon ma pi kasi suli. o lukin e waso en kasi.
mi pilin e ni: ni li kama pona mute, tawa sina.”

meli lili pi len loje li lawa e oko ona.
ona li lukin e suno lon kasi e waso e kule pi ma kasi ni.
meli lili li toki:
“ken la mi ken pana e kasi kule, tawa mama mama meli mi.
ken la ona li pilin e ni: «kasi kule li pona tawa mi!»,
mi jo e tenpo mute, mi ken kepeken tenpo mute.”

meli lili pi len loje li weka, tan nasin. ona li tawa, lon ma pi kasi suli.

tenpo sama la soweli ike li tawa wawa, kepeken tenpo lili.
ona li tawa tomo pi mama mama meli.
ona li kalama e supa lupa tomo pi mama mama meli.

mama mama meli li toki: “jan seme li lon?”

soweli li toki: “meli lili pi len loje li lon, mi jo e moku suwi e moku telo! o open e lupa!”

mama mama meli li toki: “a! sina ken open e lupa. mi wawa ala, mi ken ala open e lupa.”

soweli li open e lupa li kama lon insa. soweli li toki ala li tawa supa lape pi mama mama meli.
ona li moku e ali pi mama mama meli.
tenpo kama la soweli ike li len e sama, kepeken len pi mama mama meli li kama lon insa pi supa lape.

tenpo sama la meli lili li pilin e ni:
“a ike! mi kepeken tenpo pi mute mute a! tenpo ni la mi jo e tenpo ala!
mi tawa tomo mama mama mi!”

----

meli lili li kama lon sinpin pi tomo mama mama meli ona.
tenpo ni la lupa li open. tan ni la oko pi meli lili li open mute.
meli lili li kama, lon insa tomo li pilin nasa li toki:
“tenpo ante la lon poka pi mama mama mi la mi pilin pona. taso, tenpo ni la mi pilin nasa mute.”
meli lili li toki: “toki!”.
taso, jan ala li toki tawa ona.

tan ni la meli lili li tawa supa lape.
lon ni la mama mama meli pi meli lili li lape.
lawa ona li lon insa pi selo len. (selo len li selo pi supa lape).
ona li nasa lukin mute.

meli lili li toki: “a! mama mama o! sina li jo e nena kute pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken kute pona e sina.”

meli lili li toki: “taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e oko pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken lukin pona e sina.”

meli lili li toki: “taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e luka pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “kepeken ni la mi ken luka e sina”

meli lili li toki: “a! taso, mama mama o! sina li jo e uta pi suli mute!”

ona li toki: “a! kepeken ni la mi ken moku pona e sina!”

soweli li toki e ni la ona li kama wawa, tan supa lape. ona li moku e meli lili ali.

tenpo moku pini la ona li kama, lon supa lape li lape. soweli li lape la ona li kalama lape mute.

tenpo sama la jan alasa li tawa, lon poka tomo.
jan alasa li pilin e ni: “meli pi tomo ni li kalama mute. ken la sina wile e ijo”.
jan alasa li kama, lon insa tomo. ona li kama lukin e soweli lape.

jan alasa li toki: “a! soweli ike o! sina li lon ni tan seme a?! tenpo suli la mi wile moli e sina!”
jan alasa li wile kepeken ilo moli, tawa soweli. taso, ona li kama pilin e ni: ken la mama mama meli li lon insa pi soweli ike. ken la tenpo ni la mama mama li moli ala.
tan ni la ona li kepeken ala e ilo moli. ona li kepeken ilo kipisi.
ona li kipisi e sijelo pi soweli lape.

insa pi soweli ike li kama tu la jan alasa li lukin e meli lili pi len loje.
ona li kama, tan sijelo pi soweli ike.
meli lili li toki: “a! mi monsuta mute! lon insa soweli li pimeja mute!”
mama mama meli li kama kin.
tenpo kama la meli lili li alasa e kiwen mute. ona li pana e kiwen lon insa pi soweli ike.
soweli ike li kama lape ala la ona li wile tawa wawa. taso, lon insa pi soweli ike li jo e kiwen mute.
tan ni la ona li ken ala tawa li kama moli.

soweli li moli la jan tu wan li kama pilin pona.

jan alasa li kipisi li kama jo e selo soweli. jan alasa li tawa tomo ona.
mama mama li moku e moku suwi e telo pi meli lili.
meli lili pi len loje li pilin e ni:
“tenpo kama ali la mi awen, lon nasin pi ma kasi ni.
tenpo kama ali la mi weka ala, tan nasin.
mama mi li toki e lawa la mi weka ala, lon ma pi kasi suli.”

tenpo ante la meli lili li pana kin e moku, tawa mama mama sina.
ona li tawa lon nasin sama. soweli ike ante kin li lon nasin ni.
soweli li wile ike. taso, meli lili pi len loje li sona pona.
meli lili li tawa wawa li lukin ala e soweli ike.

lon tomo pi mama mama sina la meli lili li toki e ijo pi soweli ike sin, tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama meli li toki: “a, o pake (open ala) e supa lupa pi tomo mi. mi wile ala e ni: soweli ike li kama lon insa.”
tenpo kama la soweli li kalama e supa lupa tomo pi mama mama meli.
soweli ike li toki: “o open! mi meli lili pi len loje! mi pana e moku suwi!
taso meli lili en mama mama meli li toki ala.
tan ni la soweli li sike e tomo li kama, lon lawa tomo.

ona li wile awen e tenpo pimeja.
ona li wile e ni: lon tenpo pimeja la meli lili li kama tan tomo la soweli li moku e ona.
taso, mama mama meli li sona e ni.

lon sinpin tomo la lupa kiwen suli li lon.
mama mama meli li toki:
“tenpo suno pini la mi pali e moku, kepeken telo seli.
meli lili o pana e telo seli pi moku mi, kepeken poki lili.
o pana e telo seli ni lon insa pi lupa kiwen suli.”

meli lili pi len loje li pana e telo seli, tawa lupa kiwen suli.
lupa kiwen suli li kama jo e telo mute.
kon pi telo seli li sama moku pi tenpo suno pini.
soweli ike li pilin e kon.
ona li kama, tawa lupa kiwen suli.
soweli ike li lukin lon insa pi lupa kiwen suli.
lawa pi soweli ike li tawa anpa. taso, noka ona li ken ala awen, lon open pi lupa kiwen suli.

soweli ike li tawa anpa wawa li kama lon insa pi telo mute.
soweli ike li moli lon telo.

tan ni la meli lili pi len loje li pilin pona li tawa tomo ona.

tan ni la tenpo ali la ike li kama ala, tawa ona.


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