A question about "pi"

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Jose
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:10 pm

A question about "pi"

Postby Jose » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:28 pm

Toki!

I'm not sure how to use pi, perhaps someone can help me. Here's what my problem is:

bar = tomo pi telo nasa

your bar = ? (tomo sina pi telo nasa maybe?)

Also, for clarification:

tomo pi telo nasa pi laso jelo = a green bar? (not a bar serving green drinks (absinthe, I guess.))

janKipo
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Re: A question about "pi"

Postby janKipo » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:07 pm

'pi' introduces a modifier of more than one word, as opposed to the basic case that introduces modifiers one word at a time. So in 'tomo pi telo nasa', the modifier is 'telo nasa' "alcohol" as a whole, not just 'telo' then 'nasa' as in 'tomo telo nasa' "strange bathroom" ('tomo telo' means "bathroom")
Now, that compound word can be modified further, so you can talk about your bar 'tomo pi telo nasa, sina'. In this case, the comma is there to show that a new modifier has been added to a phrases that ends in a 'pi' modifier. Otherwise, the 'sina' would attach to 'telo nasa' for 'tomo pi teli nasa sina' "house of your alcohol", maybe a distillery-owned bar, say. Alternatively (and generally clearer), these later modifiers are moved up ahead of their proper place at the end to go before the 'pi' strings, so 'tomo sina pi telo nasa' for "your bar" again. (The commas and the move forward are not exactly official, but if you don't do them you make for ever muddier phrases.)

'tomo pi telo nasa pi laso jelo' is, without comma, a house of green alcohol, absinthe or Chartreuse of creme de menthe or something equally sickening. With a comma, it is a green bar, presumably one painted green (fern bars would be 'tomo pi telo nasa, kasi' or 'tomo kasi pi telo nasa' -- I've never seen a case). I suppose that a green colored bar might also be 'tomo pi laso jelo, pi telo nasa'

Hope that helps rather than confusing things further.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Location: Berlin

Re: A question about "pi"

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:04 pm

Jose wrote:Toki!

I'm not sure how to use pi, perhaps someone can help me. Here's what my problem is:

bar = tomo pi telo nasa

your bar = ? (tomo sina pi telo nasa maybe?)

Also, for clarification:

tomo pi telo nasa pi laso jelo = a green bar? (not a bar serving green drinks (absinthe, I guess.))


toki!

The Official Book says:

The particle pi is used to divide a second noun group that describes a first noun group.

jan pi pona mute
a person of much good


Of course, this translates also to "a very good person". If you omit the pi, the result would be "many good persons".

So, yes, "tomo sina pi telo nasa" is "your bar". Absynth could be telo nasa pi (kule) laso jelo, but telo nasa laso jelo would also express it. A "green bar" could be simply "tomo laso jelo pi telo nasa".

I hope this helps.

Bye!
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona

Jose
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: A question about "pi"

Postby Jose » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:58 pm

pona! Thank you very much, I think I've got it. :)

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: A question about "pi"

Postby janKipo » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:53 pm

About Tepan's comments
1. Ignore the official definition, since it doesn't cover most cases, 'jan pi pona mute' for example (the second art is and adjective phrase, not a noun)
2 absinthe is 'telo nasa pi laso jelo' (and similarly for a green bar), otherwise you get a blue liquor that is yellow, which may be green but doesn't seem to be. in 'telo nasa laso jelo', 'laso' modifies 'telo nasa', "blue liquor" and then 'jelo' modifies that, so a yellow colored blue liquor. What you want is a yellowish blue liquor, where 'jelo' modifies 'laso' and that means the two form a unit to attach to 'teli laso' -- and so they are set off by 'pi'.

janpona120
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Re: A question about "pi"

Postby janpona120 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:35 am

1. Ignore the official definition, since it doesn't cover most cases
Wow. Rebel forces are growing.
'jan pi pona mute' for example (the second art is and adjective phrase, not a noun)
jan pi "enough" -- a satisfied (complete) person, e.g. James Bond 007

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: A question about "pi"

Postby janKipo » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:29 am

No, the reactionaries are just weakening (they can't even make their case with a straight face).
"enough" is 'mute pona', not 'pona mute'.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Location: Berlin

Re: A question about "pi"

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:47 pm

Jose wrote:pona! Thank you very much, I think I've got it. :)


You're welcome! :)
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona


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