len lawa loje

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
janKipo
Posts: 2754
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:43 am

Quibbles mostly now that the big stuff is under control.
Line six, you're keeping 'ona' alive for Li'l Red, but now you need to anaphorize 'len' so need either a modified 'ona' or 'len ni' since 'ni' alone is mainly for sentences.
7 jan Ali li toki (usual plea about quotes for names of names)
8 (plea again) maybe need 'nimi' before the name ( disputed point)
10 prob 'toki jan', "what the person said"
11 prob wawa ala Pilin' but disputed. quote
12 prob 'Kama sona' "find out whether"
13 unquote
18 the safe way to do this is 'tempo mute la soweli li sike e suno'. Beyond that, a lot of lines have been tried, all of them clear in meaning but often obscure in grammar. This is as good as any and better than some but untidy somehow. I think it is that the ,pini' seem unnecessary. I would have expected him to have many white hairs rather than few, prob 'pi mute
20 'Jan pi Pali kasi' a gardener? Or ranger? Expected 'pi Kipisi kasi' at least.
21 'monsuta' is still a problem word, but I think 'soweli li monsuta e jan' is about right, the alternatives here raise problems of 'monsuta' and 'Pilin'.
22 quotes
23again 'li monsuta ala e soweli'
24 quote
25 unquote
26 'soweli li toki e ni:' quotes. This may work without 'e ni' as another possible way to break up the monotony, but it certainly requires the quotes.
27 see above, including the 'li' so
28 quote
29 unquote
30 'li again, quote 'tenpo pona'?
31 poss second is imperative.
32 prob just 'Kama sona e ni:' rest not a sentence. Prob just 'nasin seme li pona mute' unquote.
38 quotes
39 'kepeken Kalama pi sama toki pi jan LL'
40 quote
41 unquote
42 see earlier
44 quotes needs 'o' or drop comma. 'Tan ni la' née something better for "pull".
46 if 'lili lili' means "very short", it prob needs 'pi'
51 'awen lape' 'Kama pi jan LL'
54 'kepeken kalama pi sama (toki pi) mama mama'
55'jan LL li toki'
56 quote
57 started worrying about 'telo walo ko jelo' "yellow gooey milk" maybe 'ko jelo pi telo walo' "soft cheese" unquote
59 quotes 'tan ni la'
62 prob 'len pi supa lape'
63 quote
64 unquote
68 maybe 'monsuta' alone
The range of ways of dealing with rapid dialog are numerous and we just need to decide what tp will allow. I like this one as a shorthand, at least. Maybe officially 'jan LojeLili la' You have the quotes right at the end; why not earlier?

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:26 pm

I've done almost all corrections you advised.
At least I got what you mean when wrote "quote - unquote". Sorry it took me so long :(
But here some places which are still unclear for me.

>> 7 jan Ali li toki (usual plea about quotes for names of names)
Not sure what you mean. I put quotes around names.

>>11 prob wawa ala Pilin' but disputed. quote
After a long consideration i decided to go with just "pilin ike."

>>18 the safe way to do this is 'tempo mute la soweli li sike e suno'.
The idea is clear and sound but I don't like the concept of a wolf circling the sun for a long time :)

>>20 'Jan pi Pali kasi' a gardener? Or ranger? Expected 'pi Kipisi kasi' at least.
I've being thinking about it. And decided - since in different stories they either hunters or lumberjacks. Here they must be an unspecified foresters.

>>21 'monsuta' is still a problem word, but I think 'soweli li monsuta e jan' is about right
I'm not sure but for me it sound like "wolf got them scared?"
so I rearranged 3 sentences there. Hope used "la" properly.

>>30 'li again, quote 'tenpo pona'?
I'd say 'tenpo pona' -'such a nice occasion'

>>31 poss second is imperative.
Not sure just statement you are going one way me the other

>>32 prob just 'Kama sona e ni:' rest not a sentence. Prob just 'nasin seme li pona mute' unquote. "
pona mute" could translate to "very good" and then nasin may become "this way" but my intension was "are tose roads both good."

>>68 maybe 'monsuta' alone
I'm not comfortable wit "ona li monsuta". For me it sounds like "shi is monster"

Still need help with next sentences:

Let's see who will get there faster.
Kids are doing wrong when talk to strangers.
He is dangerous.

janKipo
Posts: 2754
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:52 pm

Sorry about being to condensed; I'll try for better details.
7. 'nimi ona li kama nimi 'LojeLili'' or maybe 'li kama 'Lojelili'' (As I say, I despair of getting people -- myself included -- to do this right, but I have to keep trying)
18. "many times", not "for a long time" ('tenpo suli')
20 Oh, "works in the woods" not "makes plants"; my bad!
21 "So, if the wolf was afraid/was a monster, the wolf did not eat (e) Li'l Red" I think you mean "Because of this the wolf was afraid. So he did not eat..." Drop the 'la' between the two sentences and maybe put another 'tan ni la' before the second'
30, 31 pona.
32 so 'nasin ni tu li pali ala pali' "Are both these roads good?"
68. Yes, it could mean "she is a monster" but it can also mean "she is afraid" (tp is like that a lot)
'mi tu o kama sona e ni. seme li kama lon tenpo lili?' or something like that
fussy virsion" jan lili li sona ala e jan la lili li toki tawa ona la lili li pali ike' 'ni li lon ala: jan lili li sona ala e jan ni la jan lili li toki kin tawa ona.' and so on.
'ona li pakala' or, at least, 'ona li kama pakala'

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:29 am

I've done corrections.
Now starting to work on a part two of the story
Morale: ... kids are doing so wrong when speaking to strangers...
Here is one more question.
How do you say in TP . ... to pretend ...

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:57 am

pretend: 'pali pi lon ala' as a first guess, but not tested.
Last edited by janKipo on Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

jan Pina
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:51 am

jan Kipo o, toki!
me pilin e ni: me pali e sona sin.
toki inli "to pretend" li sama "to deceive" anu "to cheat".
nasin ni la me ken toki e ni: "ike esun".
toki ni li lukin pona tawa me. "pali e ike esun" anu "wile e ike esun"
ni li pona seme tawa sina?
Last edited by jan Pina on Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:39 am

'toki, jan Kipo o' (or, better, 'jan Kipo o, toki')
taso toki Inli 'pretend' li sama ala toki Inli 'deceive' anu 'cheat'. One can pretend without any one else being involved, but one can't cheat or deceive without another person (or perhaps oneself in a different role) being involved. tan ni la nimi 'esun' li lon ala tan ni: esun li wile e jan tu.

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:50 am

jan Kipo o, toki.

toki sina li pona tawa mi.
mi mute li ken ala kepeken e "ike esun" tawa ijo ali.
mi mute li ken kepeken e ni tawa ijo ike taso.
taso mi ken pali pi ike esun tawa mi.
mi ken pilin pona tawa pali ni.
taso tenpo mute la pali ni li ike kin. :)

I'm not sure yet how to say "pretend" in case of good or neutral intentions.
Like stage play or something.
Last edited by jan Pina on Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.

janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:56 pm

'toki sina li pona'
'mi mute li ken ala'
'mi mute li ken'
ijo ike taso' "only bad things"
mi ken pali pi ike esun tawa sama' "I can cheat myself"
'nasin la' "generally, usually"
I'm not sure I think you can really cheat yourself or that you can feel good about doing it, but I'd have to see cases. You can deceive your self and feel good about that, but that is, as noted, different.

I am coming to like 'pali pi lon ala' better for general pretending "doing fiction"

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:45 pm

I can't tell the difference of "cheat myself" and "deceive myself" because in Russian (which is my native) there is no difference between the two.
Them both are the same "обманывать себя" "full myself" :)
Actually synonimic sentence for "обманывать себя" would be "turn a blind eye to the facts" or "ignore knowledge".
So we could use something like "pini e oko tawa ni" or "pini e oko tawa sona" or "mi nasa e sama"


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