len lawa loje

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:21 pm

Thank you jan Alante. Thank you jan Kipo.
Here is updated edition. Hope this time here would be less mistakes. :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
o kute e toki pi len lawa loje lili.
tenpo suli pini la jan lili meli li lon. ona li jo e len loje. len lawa ona li loje.
nimi ona li LojeLili.
tenpo suno la mama ona li toki e ni: LojeLili o tawa tomo pi mama mama meli sina.
o pana e kala pona e pan sin e poki pi telo walo tawa mama mama.
jan LojeLili li tawa tomo pi mama mama. ona li tawa lon nasin pi ma pi kasi suli.
ona li tawa li kalama musi pona.
tenpo ni la soweli pi ike suli li lon nasin ni.
soweli nimi li Lupo. soweli Lupo li wile moku wawa.
ona li toki tawa jan LojeLili: sina tawa seme?
jan LojeLili li lukin e soweli. ona li toki e ni: mi tawa tomo pi mama mama mi.
soweli li toki e ni: nasin ni li ike. taso nasin ante li pona. LojeLili o kepeken nasin ante.
jan LojeLili li tawa lon nasin ante. nasin ante kin li ike. ona li tawa lon tenpo suli.
soweli Lupo li tawa wawa lon nasin pona. tenpo lili la soweli li kama tawa tomo.
soweli li kama lon insa tomo. ona li moli e mama mama.
soweli li kama jo e telo loje tan mama mama. soweli li pali e telo nasa tan telo loje ona.
soweli li pali e moku tan mama mama kepeken seli.
mama mama li kama moku kin.
ona li lon insa poki moku li lon supa moku.
soweli li len kepeken len pi mama mama.
tenpo ni LojeLili li kama. ona li open e lupa tomo. ona li tawa insa tomo.
ona li toki e ni: toki! mama mama o! mi kama.
mi jo e kala pona e pan sin e poki pi telo walo. mi wile li pana e moku tawa sina.
soweli Lupo li kute e toki ona.
soweli li toki e ni: sina pona tawa mi. mi jo e moku. moku pona li lon e supa moku.
jan lili mi o moku li moku ni.
tenpo ni la soweli lili li kama. soweli lili li pona. nimi ona li Katu.
ona li wile pakala e moku ni. ona li wile ni: jan LojeLili li moku ala e mama mama.
taso la ona li pakala ala. ona li pona ala e ni kin. soweli Lupo li sona e pilin pi soweli Katu.
soweli Lupo li moli e ona. soweli Katu li moli.
jan LojeLili li moku e mama mama.
soweli Lupo li toki e ni tawa jan LojeLili: moku ni li pona ala pona tawa sina?
jan LojeLili li toki e ni: moku li pona.
mi pilin wawa ala. mi wile lape.
soweli Lupo li toki e ni: o pana len sina tawa mi. o lape lon supa mi.
jan LojeLili li weka e len ona. ona li lape lon supa.
soweli li kama jo e len ona. soweli li weka e len lon insa pi poki seli.
len li kama e seli. len li kama e kon ike. len li kama e ala.
soweli li kama tawa supa lape. soweli li lape lon supa.
jan Loje li pilin e soweli.
ona li toki ni: -'mama mama o! oko sina li suli tan seme?'
soweli li toki. -'Tan ni: mi wile lukin pona e sina.'
-'mama mama o! kute sina li suli tan seme?'
-'tan ni: mi wile kute mute e toki sina.'
-'mama mama o! sina jo e luka suli tan seme?'
-'tan ni: mi wile li jo wawa e sina.'
-'mama mama o! uta sina li suli tan seme?'
-'tan ni: mi wile moku wawa e sina.'
soweli ike suli li moku e jan LojeLili.
jan Loelili li lon ala.
pini.
Last edited by jan Pina on Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:29 am

Pona!

"... wile sike e sina ..." could be read as "want to rotate you" :)
so I'll go with "...wile jo e sina..."

janKipo
Posts: 2754
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa l

Postby janKipo » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:09 pm

'O kute e toki pi...'
In a hopeless effort to get it right, 'nimi ona li nimi 'LojeLili'' (but you apparently don't need the second 'nimi')
Quotes 'tawa tomo'(no 'e')
'Nimi soweli ( everyone agrees) li (nimi) 'Lupo'' (correct but no one does it). 'soweli Lupo' (proper names are adjectives and so have to have a supporting noun)
'Toki e ni tawa ...' Quotes
Quotes 'tawa tomo' no 'e' (with 'e' it says she is moving the house somewhere).
Quotes.
'Nasin ante kin li ike'
(The line about the Bloody Mary doesn't play any further role and could be dropped.)
'Kama moku'
I think 'Lon insa poki e moku' "put the food in a box or whatever". Similarly 'Lon supa e Moku'
Quotes and especially later for the wolf
'(Nimi) 'Katu''
Quotes 'pans e Len'
Quotes, very important here as you switch speakers without marking
'Mi wile moku wawa e sina'
Drop first 'suli
Still an occasional glitch but coming nicely. Thanks again.

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:58 pm

Thank you for corrections.
I did edit previous post in order to save space.
Hope this time even less mistakes left.

janpona120
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:44 am

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janpona120 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:50 am

Maybe, there is a difference:

1) "mama mama meli" -- a parent for a female parent (parent of my mother)... maybe a father, maybe a mother
2) "mama meli mama -- a female parent for a parent (mother of my parent)... only a grandmother

If to add "mi", then "my grandmother" --> "mama meli pi mama mi (a mother of my mother)

janKipo
Posts: 2754
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:23 am

'Mama mama' is a grandparent -- any of the four. 'Mama mama meli' is a female grandparent, a grandmother, either of the two. 'Mama pi mama meli' is a maternal grandparent, either of the two. 'Mama pi mama meli, meli' or, more clearly, 'mama meli pi mama meli' is a maternal grandmother. We don't know whether the grand mother here is maternal or paternal, so 'mama mama meli' covers the situation.

janpona120
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:44 am

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janpona120 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:03 am

We don't know whether the grand mother here is maternal or paternal, so 'mama mama meli' covers the situation.
Really, "mama mama meli" is the shortest variant for grandmother. Thank you for explanation.

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:05 pm

Here is a kids friendly version.
Comments and editorials are very welcome.

Disclaimer:
The version of a Little Red Riding Hood by Charles Perrault
translated from english. The source is:http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/harris/StudentProjects/Student_FairyTales/WebProject/Fairy%20Tales/little%20red%20riding%20hood.htm

o kute e toki pi jan LenLawaLojeLili.
tenpo suli pini la jan lili meli li lon ma tomo lili. ona li meli pona lukin mute. meli ante li pona lukin lili.
ona li pona tawa mama meli ona. ona li pona mute tawa mama mama meli ona.
mama mama ona li pali e len lawa loje lili tawa ona.
mama mama li pana e len ni tawa ona.
ona li len e len ni. ona li kama pona tawa jan ali. len loje ni li pona tawa jan ali.
tan ni la jan ali li toki tawa ona kepeken nimi "LenLawaLojeLili" anu "LojeLili".
nimi ona li kama nimi "LojeLili".
tenpo suno la mama ona li pali e moku pan suwi mute.
mama li toki tawa LojeLili e ni: "mi kute e toki jan.
jan li toki e ni: mama mama sina li pilin ike.
o tawa tomo pi mama mama meli. o kama sona e ni: mama mama li pilin pona ala pona?
o pana e pan suwi e poki lili pi ko jelo pi telo walo tawa mama mama sina."
tomo pi mama mama li lon ma tomo lili ante .
jan LojeLili li tawa tomo ni.
ona li tawa lon nasin pi ma pi kasi suli.
tenpo ni la soweli suli pi ike suli li lon nasin ni.
soweli li jo e sike suno mute. soweli li jo e linja walo mute.
ona li wile moku kin e jan LojeLili.
taso jan pali kasi li lon ma ni.
tan ni la soweli li monsuta. tan ni la soweli li moku ala e jan LojeLili.
soweli li toki e ni tawa jan LojeLili: "sina tawa seme?"
jan LojeLili li sona lili li monsuta pilin ala e soweli.
ona li toki e ni: "mi tawa tomo pi mama mama mi.
mi jo e pan suwi e poki pi ko jelo pi telo walo. tenpo kama la mi pana e moku ni tawa mama mama."
soweli toki e ni: "tomo mama mama li lon poka ala poka tawa ma kasi ni?"
jan LojeLili toki e ni: "tomo li weka li lon ma tomo ante lili. tomo mama mama ni li tomo nanpa wan pi poka ma tomo. tomo palisa pi pali pan li lon poka tomo ni."
soweli il toki. "tenpo pona. mi wile lukin e mama mama sina.
me tawa tomo ona kepeken nasin ni. sina tawa tomo ona kepeken nasin ante.
me mute li kama jo e sona ni: nasin tu ni li pona ala pona."
jan LojeLili li tawa lon nasin ante.
ona li tawa li kalama musi pona li alasa e kili kiwen li pali e kulupu kasi kule li alasa e pipi waso kule.
nasin ante kin li ike. ona li tawa lon tenpo suli.
soweli li tawa wawa lon nasin pona. tenpo lili la soweli li kama lon tomo.
ona li kalama e lupa tomo: "toka toka toka".
mama mama li toki e ni: "jan seme li kama?"
soweli li toki kepeken kalama pi sama toki pi jan LojeLili.
"mi jan lili pi jan lili sina. mi jan LojeLili li kama.
mi jo e pan suwi e poki pi ko jelo pi telo walo. mi wile pana e moku ni tawa sina."
mama mama li pilin ike li lon supa lape.
ona li toki wawa tawa lupa tomo.
"jan LojeLili o kama jo e linja pi lupa tomo. o tawa anpa e linja ni. tan ni la lupa tomo li open."
soweli li kute e toki ni. ona li tawa anpa e linja pi lupa tomo. lupa tomo li open.
soweli li kama lon insa tomo. ona li tawa supa.
ona li wile wawa e moku. tenpo suno tu wan la ona li moku ala.
tenpo lili lili la ona li moku e mama mama.
ona li len kepeken len pi mama mama li pini e lupa tomo.
soweli li lape lon supa pi mama mama li awen lape e kama pi jan LojeLili.
tenpo ni la jan LojeLili li kama.
ona li kalama e lupa tomo. "toka toka toka".
soweli li toki kepeken kalama pi sama toki pi mama mama. "jan seme li kama?"
LojeLili li toki.
"mi jan lili pi jan lili sina. mi jan LojeLili li kama.
mi jo e pan suwi e poki pi ko jelo pi telo walo. mi wile pana e moku ni tawa sina."
soweli li toki.
"jan LojeLili o kama jo e linja pi lupa tomo. o tawa e linja tawa anpa. tan ni la lupa tomo li open."
jan LojeLili li tawa e linja pi lupa tomo tawa anpa. lupa tomo li open.
ona li tawa insa tomo.
soweli li weka tan oko kepeken len pi supa lape.
ona li toki e ni: "o pana e pan suwi e poki pi ko jelo pi telo walo lon supa moku.
o lape lon supa mi."
jan LojeLili li pana moku lon supa moku.
ona li weka e len ona li tawa supa li lape lon supa.
ona li lukin e soweli suli pimeja li pilin monsuta.
ona li toki e ni: -"mama mama o! oko sina li suli tan seme?'
soweli li toki e ni: -"Tan ni: mi wile lukin pona e sina."
LL-"mama mama o! kute sina li suli tan seme?"
s-"tan ni: mi wile kute mute e toki sina."
LL-"mama mama o! sina jo e luka suli tan seme?"
s-"tan ni: mi wile li jo wawa e sina."
LL-"mama mama o! uta sina li suli tan seme?"
s-"tan ni: mi wile moku wawa e sina."
soweli ike suli li moku e jan LojeLili.
jan Loelili li lon ala.
pini.

toki ni li pana e sona.

jan lili li toki tawa jan pona ala la jan lili li pali ike.
tan ni:'tenpo mute la soweli ike li jo e moku ona.'
mi toki e soweli anu e jan kin.
soweli ni li pali e lukin sama pi jan pona.
ona li pali pona li toki pona. taso ona li ike.
ona li tawa jan lili meli. ona li tawa tomo pi jan lili.
a! jan ali li sona e ni:
soweli ni li ike mute. soweli mute ante li ike lili.
Last edited by jan Pina on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:44 am, edited 16 times in total.

janKipo
Posts: 2754
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby janKipo » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:37 pm

- - - -
pana e len ni
-
jan ali li toki (nimi 'LenLawaLojeLili' anu 'Loje Lili', but I despair of anyone doing this right)
(similarly, kama 'Loje Lili')
-
mi kute e jan toki
Quotes 'wawa ala pilin'' probably.
o kama sona e ni: mama mama li pilin ...'
'telo walo ko'? curds?
- - -
"0f tremendous badness?" or just 'soweli ike suli' "big bad beast"?
"The beast is in the distant past"? "The beast is in a long past time"? Not clear what intended.
'jan pi kipisi kasi'
maybe just 'monsuta e' or monsuta pilin' ('monsuta' needs some work)
'toki e ni tawa jan LojeLili: Quotes
see above
Quotes
toki e ni: Quotes (other possibilities being investigated but not official yet and for special cases)
poka pi kasi ni but 'li poka ala poka tawa kasi ni' is cleaner.
toki e ni: Quotes
li weka.
soweli li toki e ni: (this middle bit seems a special case where you can go from x like toki e ni Quote; to just 'x la Quote') 'lukin e mama'
Quotes jan LojeLili
sona ni: nasin seme li pona mute (or something like that)
alasa e kili kiwen
- - - (though 'toka toka' is suspect)
toki e ni : Quotes (or maybe still 'mama mama la Quotes')
toki e ni kepeken kalama sama jan LojelLili:
Quotes mi jan lili
-
see earlier
toki e ni... tomo:
Quotes o kama (or join the two 'o's) 'tawa anpa' (but something should be used in place of 'tawa', I think) tan ni la
'tenpo ala la' means "never" "at no time", you want "in no time" and we don't really do that well, maybe 'kepeken tenpo ala'
tenpo suno pini tu wan la (I think)
- - -
prob 'awen lape', but there are probably subtle differences here.
tenpo ni la
-
toki e ni ... mama: Quotes
jan LL li toki e ni (or LL la) Quotes
mi jan lili
-
toki e ni: (s la) Quotees
see above
ditto
kepeken len supa
Quotes lon supa moku
-
LL li pana
- -
lukin e soweli see earlier
-
e ni:
LL la
s la
LL la
s la still need a better word for hug or fondle or whatever
LL la
s la
-
Lojelili

careless typos, I suspect ('li' omitted after 'lili'), other sorta random errors, but basically sound. Still not a very child friendly story. Maybe we should move to the version where the woodsman comes in.

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: len lawa loje

Postby jan Pina » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:39 pm

pona! jan Kipo o!
I edited previous post according to what you say.
Did changed some things to clarify the text. hope it does clarify :)
soweli li lon tenpo pini suli - soweli li jo e sike suno pini mute.
jan kipisi kasi - jan pali kasi

I'm not sure I've got all your directions right so some corrections I've done could be not for better but for worse :(
There some places and concepts in original text which I still can't translate.
Such as:
We'll see who will get there faster.
Kids are doing wrong when talk to strangers.
He is dangerous.


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