Full and Empty

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
janpona120
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:44 am

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janpona120 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:16 am

What is about a word "ijo" and "insa":

empty -- jo e ijo ala (has no things)
full -- jo e ijo ali (has, all possible, things)

empty -- jo e insa ala (has no content inside)
full -- jo e insa pini (has a completed content inside)

janKipo
Posts: 2766
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janKipo » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:54 pm

But insa is a thing or at least a place, so 'jo e insa ala' means I'm not sure what " has no inside" -- maybe not hollow. 'insa pini' "finished inside" sould like interior decoration, not fullness. and, of course, 'ijo ali' is hyperbole - 'ijo pi mute pona' "enough stuff" is probably safer.

janpona120
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:44 am

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janpona120 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:39 am

'insa pini' "finished inside" sould like interior decoration, not fullness
What is a mission of a box (a tube, an oil pipeline)? -- to be filled, no decorated. The decor is a mission of a surface (supa), walls (sinpin), clothes (len)... head (lawa) by a crown. I would like to say: the decoration is "sitelen" (including an arabic written pictures).

So, the interior decoration --> insa sitelen pini (finished as a picture, where? inside).
And contrary, "insa sitelen ala" --> an interior without decoration (or "decorated on 0%).

janKipo
Posts: 2766
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janKipo » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:05 am

Surface of an object is more likely 'selo' than 'supa'.

janpona120
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:44 am

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janpona120 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:19 am

Surface of an object is more likely 'selo' than 'supa'
Thank you for a useful prompt.

selo sitelen -- decorated skin
supa sitelen -- decorated floor
sinpin sitelen -- decorated wall

It will be very good to see another variants with "X sitelen". This is also about "full and empty" question, because surfaces can be filled by an ornament. I guess:

ma sitelen -- landscape
mu sitelen -- melody of a nature (song of bird, for example)
nasin sitelen -- bio (as a variant)

janKipo
Posts: 2766
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janKipo » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:53 pm

Interesting suggestions to throw out to the community.
Last edited by janKipo on Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jan Pina
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: Full and Empty

Postby jan Pina » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:32 pm

Me is new to Toki Pona so I have a fresh eye on it.

jo e ala - is pretty clear for newcomers like me. Means empty.
poki jo e ijo lon insa - not emty. It is not completely full but one may clarify it
ante li ken ala lon insa ona.

janKipo
Posts: 2766
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janKipo » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:41 pm

Kama pona tawa toki pona!
These are useful suggestions, but can be refined:
'poki li jo e ijo' is enough "box contains something"
Probably, 'sin' is better than 'ante' "something more" rather than "something different".

janpona120
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:44 am

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janpona120 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:59 am

jo e ala poka --> almost empty

janKipo
Posts: 2766
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Full and Empty

Postby janKipo » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:19 am

Yes, 'polka ' seems to be used that way.


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