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Toki Pona Forums • ...in front of me...
Page 1 of 1

...in front of me...

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:12 am
by natan
Struggling to figure out how to say "I have many papers in front of me." (or words to that effect).

Best I have been able to do is:

1. lon mi sinpin li ni: lipu mute
OR
2. lon sinpin mi li ni: lipu mute

Meaning: At my front is this: many papers.

Not sure if "lon" is allowed to be at the be at the beginning of a sentence or not.

Any thoughts?

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:31 am
by janKipo
A prepositional phrase can't be a subject, so 'lon sinpin mi' gets read as a noun phrase, "my forward location" or so. To keep it as a "where" expression, it needs to go in one of three places: before the sentence, as a Condition: 'lon sinpin mi la lipu mute li lon' or so (and the 'lon' could probably be dropped); in the predicate as a Prepositional Phrase, lipu mute li lon, lon sinpin mi' -- which immediately collapses into 'lipu mute li lon sinpin mi'; as a modifier to the noun phrase, lipu mute pi lon sinpin mi li lon' "Many papers in front of me exist" or so. The middle choice seems the most natural. Of course, "I have many papers in front of me" is literally "mi jo e lipu mute, lon sinpin mi' but the versions above seem equally good or even better.

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:12 pm
by natan
All I see is a blob of text.

A little formatting can go a long way to aid understanding.

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:58 pm
by janKipo
I have bad experiences with formatting on this site, so I just use normal prose style. If it will help, let me try the above again:

A prepositional phrase can't be a subject, so
'lon sinpin mi'
gets read as a noun phrase,
"my forward location" or so.

To keep it as a "where" expression, it needs to go in one of three places:
1. before the sentence, as a Condition:
'lon sinpin mi la lipu mute li lon' or so (and the 'lon' could probably be dropped)
"In front of me here are many papers";

2. in the predicate as a Prepositional Phrase,
'lipu mute li lon, lon sinpin mi' -- which immediately collapses into 'lipu mute li lon sinpin mi'
"There are many papers in front of me";

3. as a modifier to the noun phrase,
'lipu mute pi lon sinpin mi li lon'
"Many papers in front of me exist" or so.

The middle choice seems the most natural.

Of course, "I have many papers in front of me" is literally
"mi jo e lipu mute, lon sinpin mi'
but the versions above seem equally good or even better.

[I see that, as usual, most of the formatting was lost. The marginal improvement (if any) in clarity hardly seems worth the extra effort.]

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:14 pm
by janTepanNetaPelin

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:28 pm
by Baerdric

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:02 pm
by janKipo
Thanks, but after half a century of this stuff, I am not inclined to learn yet another formatting language (the refusal of computer people to standardize is one of their most annoying habits, especially when it makes it difficult to transfer from one space to another, as I often want to do. I've settled for appearing sloppy.)

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:41 pm
by Baerdric
Your choice, but there's nothing to learn. Click "Code", type as normal, use tabs or spaces. No code at all. If you ever want to format something.

Re: ...in front of me...

Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:17 pm
by janKipo
Thanks again; that I can do.