...in front of me...

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
natan
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:13 am

...in front of me...

Postby natan » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:12 am

Struggling to figure out how to say "I have many papers in front of me." (or words to that effect).

Best I have been able to do is:

1. lon mi sinpin li ni: lipu mute
OR
2. lon sinpin mi li ni: lipu mute

Meaning: At my front is this: many papers.

Not sure if "lon" is allowed to be at the be at the beginning of a sentence or not.

Any thoughts?

janKipo
Posts: 2763
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby janKipo » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:31 am

A prepositional phrase can't be a subject, so 'lon sinpin mi' gets read as a noun phrase, "my forward location" or so. To keep it as a "where" expression, it needs to go in one of three places: before the sentence, as a Condition: 'lon sinpin mi la lipu mute li lon' or so (and the 'lon' could probably be dropped); in the predicate as a Prepositional Phrase, lipu mute li lon, lon sinpin mi' -- which immediately collapses into 'lipu mute li lon sinpin mi'; as a modifier to the noun phrase, lipu mute pi lon sinpin mi li lon' "Many papers in front of me exist" or so. The middle choice seems the most natural. Of course, "I have many papers in front of me" is literally "mi jo e lipu mute, lon sinpin mi' but the versions above seem equally good or even better.

natan
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:13 am

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby natan » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:12 pm

All I see is a blob of text.

A little formatting can go a long way to aid understanding.

janKipo
Posts: 2763
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby janKipo » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:58 pm

I have bad experiences with formatting on this site, so I just use normal prose style. If it will help, let me try the above again:

A prepositional phrase can't be a subject, so
'lon sinpin mi'
gets read as a noun phrase,
"my forward location" or so.

To keep it as a "where" expression, it needs to go in one of three places:
1. before the sentence, as a Condition:
'lon sinpin mi la lipu mute li lon' or so (and the 'lon' could probably be dropped)
"In front of me here are many papers";

2. in the predicate as a Prepositional Phrase,
'lipu mute li lon, lon sinpin mi' -- which immediately collapses into 'lipu mute li lon sinpin mi'
"There are many papers in front of me";

3. as a modifier to the noun phrase,
'lipu mute pi lon sinpin mi li lon'
"Many papers in front of me exist" or so.

The middle choice seems the most natural.

Of course, "I have many papers in front of me" is literally
"mi jo e lipu mute, lon sinpin mi'
but the versions above seem equally good or even better.

[I see that, as usual, most of the formatting was lost. The marginal improvement (if any) in clarity hardly seems worth the extra effort.]

User avatar
janTepanNetaPelin
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:14 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:14 pm

natan wrote:Struggling to figure out how to say "I have many papers in front of me." (or words to that effect).

Best I have been able to do is:

1. lon mi sinpin li ni: lipu mute
OR
2. lon sinpin mi li ni: lipu mute

Meaning: At my front is this: many papers.

Not sure if "lon" is allowed to be at the be at the beginning of a sentence or not.

Any thoughts?


Yes and no.
Yes, you can start a sentence with "lon", because you can rearrange a sentence putting the preposition in front. In order to do that you have to use "la", though:

→ lon sinpin mi la lipu mute li lon.

But, no, "lon" at the beginning of a sentence is always omitted.

→ sinpin mi la lipu mute li lon.

Regards
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona

Baerdric
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:24 pm

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby Baerdric » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:28 pm

Code: Select all

The best way to retain formatting
   might be to use code
   It should allow tabs

  and preceding spaces
 
 and white space
 
I answer to jan Linja Sinpin Loje but you can call me jan Loje

janKipo
Posts: 2763
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby janKipo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:02 pm

Thanks, but after half a century of this stuff, I am not inclined to learn yet another formatting language (the refusal of computer people to standardize is one of their most annoying habits, especially when it makes it difficult to transfer from one space to another, as I often want to do. I've settled for appearing sloppy.)

Baerdric
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:24 pm

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby Baerdric » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:41 pm

Your choice, but there's nothing to learn. Click "Code", type as normal, use tabs or spaces. No code at all. If you ever want to format something.
I answer to jan Linja Sinpin Loje but you can call me jan Loje

janKipo
Posts: 2763
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: ...in front of me...

Postby janKipo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:17 pm

Thanks again; that I can do.


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