A few questions from a beginner.

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
janJamesa
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A few questions from a beginner.

Postby janJamesa » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:38 pm

I just started learning toki pona a few days ago. I was wondering about a few things. One of the things I wanted to know is how to make comparisons in toki pona. If I were trying to translate "that person has more money than me", how would I do that. I have a few ideas. My first thought was "jan ni li jo e mani mute tawa mi". But I am unsure. I am studying the language with my girlfriend, and she suggested "mi jo e mani, la jan ni li jo e mani mute". Is there an accepted way to make comparisons?

Another question I had was how to translate believe? Take the sentence, "I don't believe in that". My best attempt is "sona mi, la ijo ni li lon ala".

janKipo
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Re: A few questions from a beginner.

Postby janKipo » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:52 pm

Official comparsion: x is yer than z = 'x li y mute. z li y lili' Which is often obviously false when taken literally and separately, so yopu have to take them together. I tend to cheat by using 'y ali' "totally y" , a sort of superlative, and then definiing the set in which it is true. So x is the best of the group is 'x li pona ali tan kulupu' and for comparsions, you just use groups of two ' x li y ali tan x en z'.

Which "believe" "think true"? just 'pilin'. "trust, believe in" is a lot harder and I don't have a good suggestion.

jan_Lope
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Re: A few questions from a beginner.

Postby jan_Lope » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:47 am

janJamesa wrote:I just started learning toki pona a few days ago. I was wondering about a few things. One of the things I wanted to know is how to make comparisons in toki pona. If I were trying to translate "that person has more money than me", how would I do that. I have a few ideas. My first thought was "jan ni li jo e mani mute tawa mi". But I am unsure. I am studying the language with my girlfriend, and she suggested "mi jo e mani, la jan ni li jo e mani mute". Is there an accepted way to make comparisons?

Another question I had was how to translate believe? Take the sentence, "I don't believe in that". My best attempt is "sona mi, la ijo ni li lon ala".


jan Jamesa o, toki!

Comparative and superlative are described in this part of my lessons:
http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona ... 0000000000

For example:
jan ni li jo e mani mute. mi jo e mani lili.

Your example with "tawa" don't make sense because "tawa" means something like "move to".
The example of your girl friend ("mi jo e mani la jan ni li jo e mani mute.") mean "If I had money, this man has many money." BTW. You need no comma before or after "la" because "la" is a separator already.

For "I don't believe in that" you can write something like this:
mi pilin e ni: ni li lon ala.
or
mi pilin ala e ni: ni li lon.

As you can see in Toki Pona it is useful to build two or more short sentences for one sentence in English.

pona!
pona!
jan Lope
http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona/ (Lessons)
http://rowa.giso.de/languages/toki-pona/dcg/ (Prolog and DCG)

On my foe list are the sockpuppets janKipo and janSilipu because of spamming.

jan Kie
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Re: A few questions from a beginner.

Postby jan Kie » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:35 am

I'm pretty new to toki pona but I was curious if this was an acceptable way to say "I believe/don't believe this". Since 'ni li pona tawa mi' is "This is good to me", which is implying that it's your opinion that it's good because it's good to you. Could you also say 'ni li lon ala tawa mi', suggesting that you it's your opinion that it doesn't exist.

I noticed that since toki pona can be ambiguous that 'ni li lon tawa mi' also sounds a bit crazy since you're literally saying "this exists to/for me". So I imagine there's a better way to say it but just wanted to get some veteran toki pona speakers thoughts.

janKipo
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Re: A few questions from a beginner.

Postby janKipo » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:42 am

"I (don't) believe this' is just 'mi pilin (ala) e ni' It can be intensified, if you want, with 'kin' or 'mute', but this is the basic. 'ni li pona tawa mi' is just "I like this", where "this" can be an event or a thing in the environment. It can also be an opinion, but need not be. 'lon' means "true" as well as "real" ad "existent", more or less depending on context. The notion of "true for me" is not a very respectable one; better to put it in a bleief context: mi la ni li lon', for example, which is short for 'mi pilin e ni" ni li lon'.

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janTepanNetaPelin
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Location: Berlin

Re: A few questions from a beginner.

Postby janTepanNetaPelin » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:26 pm

jan Kie wrote:I'm pretty new to toki pona but I was curious if this was an acceptable way to say "I believe/don't believe this". Since 'ni li pona tawa mi' is "This is good to me", which is implying that it's your opinion that it's good because it's good to you. Could you also say 'ni li lon ala tawa mi', suggesting that you it's your opinion that it doesn't exist.

I noticed that since toki pona can be ambiguous that 'ni li lon tawa mi' also sounds a bit crazy since you're literally saying "this exists to/for me". So I imagine there's a better way to say it but just wanted to get some veteran toki pona speakers thoughts.


jan Kie o,

"ni li lon ala tawa mi" or "tawa mi la ni li lon ala" should do the trick. "tawa mi", according to pu (the official Toki Pona book), means "from my perspective". Many (anglophones) use "mi pilin" instead, which is un-pu. ("mi pilin e ni" means "I'm feeling it".)

P.S.: Your name would be most likely "Kije" in Toki Pona.

Regards
Last edited by janTepanNetaPelin on Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jan Tepan: "o pilin pona o pu!"
https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona

janKipo
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Re: A few questions from a beginner.

Postby janKipo » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:53 pm

Tepan may be right about pu, which no longer lists 'pilin' as a verb, but is wrong about tp. Nearly half the uses of 'pilin' are 'pilin e ni:' (most of the other half are 'pilin ike' and 'pilin pona'), so the use for "think/feel/believe that" is firmly entrenched, even if Sonja did not notice or chose to emphasize other, less common, uses. (btw, don't put too much trust in "official" since tp has no organization to make or enforce rules, etc. The best that can be said for pu is that it is prestigious since written by the creator. It is occasionally wrong and often leaves stuff out.)


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