Real life situations

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
ffuentes
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Real life situations

Postby ffuentes » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:36 am

Tomo esun. wan li ike la, o pona e mi!

- toki!
- jan meli o, toki.
- ni li suwi mute!
- mi mute li jo e moku suwi pona pona li ma tomo a!.
- tan ni la, o pana e moku suwi tawa mi. ni li mani seme?
- jan mije o, moku suwi li mute mani
- a! mi pilin e ni: mani li mute a!
- o awen! mi tawa jan pi esun lawa
- ...
- ona toki tawa sina e seme?
- tenpo ni li luka luka luka taso.
- pona! mi kama jo e moku a!
- sina pana e mani kepeken e kiwen mani anu lipu mani?
- mi pana e mani kepeken e kiwen mani.
- mi tawa
- ale li pona!

o sitelen e ante kin.
o sina pilin e ni: ale li pona.
o lukin e ni.

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Real life situations

Postby janKipo » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:05 am

'pona pona' This is not yet an established tp idiom for "very good" (I assume), but there is a tendency toward it, generalizing, I think, on 'mute mute'. The remaining question is whether it requires 'pi', which I think it does but no one else seems to agree. "We have very good sweet food and are a city." What is the last part about?
We have never worked out the way to price things -- or how to say "buy" or "sell". "This is what money?" looks reasonable
I would expect 'mani mute' "much money" not 'mute mani' "a multitude of money", not that I can see exactly what the difference is in this case.
'jan pi esun lawa' is someone from corporate, a man of the chief store. prob. 'jan lawa esun' "store manage" is enough for this issue.
'ona li toki e seme tawa sina' need 'li' with ona, prep phrase at the end
"The current time is just 15"?? Probably 'teno ni la [the price of the ] moku li [money units] luka luka luka taso.' But, as I said, we don't have this worked out yet, for some reason.
Somehow, I expected 'man kiwen' and 'mani lipu', since the interesting common notion is 'mani', so the head.
'tawa pona' is the stock "Goodbye" given to the person leaving.

So, you raise more general questions -- and suggest answers -- than you have slip-ups. Very nice.

ffuentes
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Location: ma Sile
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Re: Real life situations

Postby ffuentes » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:02 pm

pona!

"We have very good sweet food and are a city." What is the last part about?


ni li mi pakala: mi mute li jo e moku suwi pona pona pi (ni) ma tomo a!. // I wanted to say that "we have the best sweet food in the city"



I would expect 'mani mute' "much money" not 'mute mani' "a multitude of money", not that I can see exactly what the difference is in this case.


In this part I was trying to express the idea of the number 20. I don't know if it's understood although by context it should.

'jan pi esun lawa' is someone from corporate, a man of the chief store. prob. 'jan lawa esun' "store manage" is enough for this issue.


pona!

'ona li toki e seme tawa sina' need 'li' with ona, prep phrase at the end


I struggle a lot making questions. "What did/does (your) boss said/say?


"The current time is just 15"?? Probably 'teno ni la [the price of the ] moku li [money units] luka luka luka taso.' But, as I said, we don't have this worked out yet, for some reason.


xD

tenpo ni la ni (moku suwi) li luka luka luka taso. // now it's 15 only.

- mi tawa
- ale li pona!


... and this is just a mistake. However, in my opinion she should say "ale li pona" to say that everything is alright. Perhaps a "o kama jo e lipu sina!" have your ticket! too.

- o kama jo e lipu sina! (tenpo ni la) ale li pona! // buyer handed the cash to the seller. Seller gives the ticket.
- pona. mi tawa! // buyer says "thanks, bye!"
- tawa pona! // "bye" says the seller.


-----------------------------------------------------

I think standards are necessary for everyday situations. This could help us using the language more naturally.

- How to address a customer or someone you don't know. (Deeming it impolite not asking the name/saying your name to that person? just jan?)

I know this may not be the goal of the language but why not?
o sina pilin e ni: ale li pona.
o lukin e ni.

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Real life situations

Postby janKipo » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:52 pm

'ni li pakala mi.' Ah, you wanted 'pona pona' for a superlative. Nice idea, which should get some traction, but tp doesn't have either comparatives or superlatives (well, I use 'pona ali' "totally good" for the latter, but that hasn't gotten any support). the trick of comparatives is y is xer than z is 'y li x mute. z li x lili' So superlatives are y is the xest = 'y li x mute. ante ali li x lili'
I tend to forget the 'mute' and 'ali' numbers for just the reason I just demonstrated. We haven't worked out how to do these cases either. You say "a monetary twenty", which works fine, but 'twenty moneys' (assuming mani is a fixed unit) would work, too. We need, as I said, to sort this stuff out.
I guess the 'mani', wherever it goes, can be understood, as is the notion that a thing IS its price.
I agree that we need, if not rules, then at least models for verbal behavior in various situations. tp doesn't really have them, beyond the generic 'toki' and 'mi tawa/tawa pona'. There is very little conversational tp and almost none of extended scenarios (The Little Prince, Some short scenes of mine, maybe a couple I have forgotten). We don't know how to talk naturally. (Oh. there may be more on irc records, but those may be artificial and, anyway, seem to be hard to get). This is at the heart of our lack of ways of dealing with common situations, like going to the store or ordering a beer, and of dealing with sentence fragments, which most conversations largely are. We don't even have clear equivalents for "Ma'am" and "Sir" as in your scenario.
Maybe a campaign to get such life events in print -- in the Life-style section of the Forum say -- needs to be launched.

ffuentes
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:39 am
Location: ma Sile
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Re: Real life situations

Postby ffuentes » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:37 pm

Image
o sina pilin e ni: ale li pona.
o lukin e ni.


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