meli sama tu

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
jan_endy
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:07 am
Location: ma Kanse

meli sama tu

Postby jan_endy » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:36 am

Hi all,
this is the prequel of "akesi kon tu" in the "nasin suli pi jan Melin".
I hope this one will be "janKipo" compliant ;)
Thanks for your help.
jan Enkimon (aka the Robert de Boron of toki pona 8-) )

meli sama tu

tenpo pini mute la, kon ike wan li lon ma Piten. ona li kon wawa mute. taso ona li pilin taso li wile jo e jan lili.

ona li alasa e mama meli pi jan lili ona kama.

ona li lukin e meli tu. meli ni li jo e mama sama. ona li pona lukin tawa kon ike. kon ike li tawa monsi e meli tu.

meli li pilin ike tan ni. ona li tawa tomo pi jan sona mute. jan sona li lukin e kon ike li toki e ni tawa meli tu:
"tenpo mun ali la sina poki e sama lon tomo lape sina. sina seli e palisa suno lon monsi lupa. ni li pini e kon ike.

tenpo mute la meli tu li pali e ijo ni. kon ike li ken ala tawa tomo lape meli.

Taso ona li sona mute. ona li pana e ike tawa pilin meli.

meli tu li utala e sama. ona li toki ike mute. meli li pilin ike la ona li tawa tomo lape sina. meli wan li seli e palisa. taso meli sin li seli ala.

kon ike li pilin pona mute. ona li kalama ala la ona li tawa tomo lape meli. jan ali li sona e ni: seme li kama lon tomo lape?

taso tenpo suno la meli ni li pilin ike. ona li toki e ni:
"a. pakala. tenpo mun la mi pilin e sitelen lape ike. insa mi li nena pi jan lili tan sitelen lape ike. mi apeja mute."

tenpo mun la jan lili monsuta li kama tan insa meli. ona li ike lukin mute. linja mute li lon sijelo ali ona. noka en lawa pi jan lili li sama e noka en lawa pi soweli.

meli li toki e ni tawa sewi:
"kon pona pi kasi en soweli o. mi toki e nimi sina. o kama pona lukin e jan lili mi."

ona li telo oko mute. telo ni li telo e lawa pi jan lili.
tenpo ni la linja ali li tawa. noka soweli li tawa. lawa soweli li tawa. jan lili li pona lukin.

meli li pilin pona mute. ona li toki ni tawa jan lili:
"sina jan lili pi pona en ike. nimi sina li jan Melin. "

jan Melin li kama jan kon tan wawa pona en wawa ike. ona li ken lukin e tenpo pini e tenpo kama. ona li ken kama e ijo pi wile ona.

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: meli sama tu

Postby janKipo » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:21 pm

Very nice. A fitting addition to Two Dragons. So mainly comments, with a few criticisms.
jan_endy wrote: "nasin suli pi jan Melin".

Surprise to find "curses" "career" where usually have "story""historian" 'toki' or "deeds" "acts""gesta" 'pali' Nice.

kon PI wawa mute

taso ona li pilin taso li wile jo e jan lili.


I know that 'pilin x' for "feel x" is totally locked in but it still seems wrong to me and that the 'pona lukin' model should be used consistently . Not to mention the ambiguity involved.

ona li alasa e mama meli pi jan lili ona kama


I think the standard order is 'jan lili kama ona', as in English

tawa monsi PI meli tu

meli li pilin ike tan ni. ona li tawa tomo pi jan sona mute. jan sona li lukin e kon ike li toki e ni tawa meli tu:
"tenpo mun ali la sina poki e sama lon tomo lape sina. sina seli e palisa suno lon monsi lupa. ni li pini e kon ike


better 'tan ni la' because connection is to a previously mentioned cause. At the end it appears to point right, to a following cause, even without the colon.

jan pi sona mute
tenpo min ali la could be either "every month" or "all month" and the rules for distinguishing are not clear.
A case of six of one, ... you say sticks that light, I think light in stick form and it doesn't seem to make a difference.
This is the "stop" for which Sonja once proposed 'pake', 'pini' is a bit strong here since the evil spirit continues to exist. I' not sure how to say it except paraphrase around 'tan ni la kon ike li Kama ala.' say

Why 'meli sin' rather than 'meli ante', she is not the same one again, nor a new one nor the younger one?

jan ali li sona e ni: seme li kama lon tomo lape?


This not really a question but an indirect description, 'Kama pi lon tomo lape' but the pull of English is strong here.

taso tenpo suno la meli ni li pilin ike. ona li toki e ni:
"a. pakala. tenpo mun la mi pilin e sitelen lape ike. insa mi li nena pi jan lili tan sitelen lape ike. mi apeja mute."


"on a month" doesn't give the sort of context one expects here. Maybe 'tenpo mun ni" "during this month" or with 'pini' "last".
'apeja' is a proposed word I do NOT miss.

tempo mun la jan lili monsuta li kama tan insa meli. ona li ike lukin mute. linja mute li lon sijelo ali ona. noka en lawa pi jan lili li sama e noka en lawa pi soweli


Again, 'tempo mun' doesn't say much, maybe 'tenpo mun luka tu tu pini la'
No 'e', it is a preposition. and no 'pi' which needs two following words ( more elsewhere).

meli li toki e ni tawa sewi:
"kon pona pi kasi en soweli o. mi toki e nimi sina. o kama pona lukin e jan lili mi."

Really nice use of a causative

ona li telo oko mute. telo ni li telo e lawa pi jan lili.
tenpo ni la linja ali li tawa. noka soweli li tawa. lawa soweli li tawa. jan lili li pona lukin

The convention would have 'pana e telo oko', but I don't see why this doesn't work as well
'weka' for 'tawa', the stuff doesn't, it just disappears, goes away (not necessarily to somewhere else, as 'tawa' would have it).

meli li pilin pona mute. ona li toki ni tawa jan lili:
"sina jan lili pi pona en ike. nimi sina li jan Melin. "

nimi pi jan lili li jan ala li nimi kin. tan ni la o toki e ni: sina jan Melin anu nimi sina li nimi 'Melin'

jan_endy
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:07 am
Location: ma Kanse

Re: meli sama tu

Postby jan_endy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:54 am

tenpo mun ali

I think I made a countersense by using "tenpo mun" for "night". Thus "tenpo mun ali" was for "every night".
Should I use "tenpo pimeja ali" instead?

This is the "stop" for which Sonja once proposed 'pake'

I dont have it in my word list, should I add it or is it still experimental?
In the meantime I use :
sina seli e palisa suno lon monsi lupa la kon ike li ken kama ala.

taso tenpo suno la meli ni li pilin ike. ona li toki e ni:
"on a month" doesn't give the sort of context one expects here.

Again the time mistake : I'm using tenpo suno for "the (next) day" not for month.

'apeja' is a proposed word I do NOT miss.

Please can you explain, the word is not used anymore? Why dont you like it?

Again, thanks a lot for all that precious advice you give me.
Thanks to you, I feel that I'm becoming a real tokiponist.

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: meli sama tu

Postby janKipo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:38 am

Yes, 'tempo pimeja' is standard for "night" and 'tenpo mun' for "month" ('tempo esun' for "week").
'pake' never was officially suggested, just bruited about on various informal lists. (Personally, I think it has a better claim to inclusion than some official words -- mentioning no names -- but then I like the distinction between stopping and finishing.) Stick with the workaround.
"on the next day" tends to be 'tenpo suno kama la', though this could strictly be any future day. 'tempo suno la' just means "in daytime".
'apeja' is a word like 'pake', never actually proposed but discussed a bit. I think there are some actual uses however. I dislike it because it seems to me to inevitably raise the whole oppressive reactionary patriarchal code of "honor" on which shame is based and which seems to me at variance with the ideology behind tp.


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