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Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
jan Tomini
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:00 am

o

Postby jan Tomini » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:03 am

mi sona ala pi nimi 'o'.

nimi 'o' li nimi wan anu tu anu wan tu li tokie e seme?

nimi li ni:
"o jan ante ..." anu
"jan ante o ..." anu
"jan ante ... o".

nimi kin li ni:
"o sina kama!" anu
"sina o kama!" anu
"sina kama o!" anu
"o sina o kama o. o o o!". ;) :D

o li sama ala, anu seme?

mi wile kama sona. [lawa insa mi li wile kama suli. ;)]

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: o

Postby janKipo » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:05 am

jan Tomini wrote:mi sona ala pi nimi 'o'.

nimi 'o' li nimi wan anu tu anu wan tu li tokie e seme?

nimi wan li jo e kepeken mute,

nimi li ni:
"o jan ante ..." anu

"Be a different person" or "may a different person ..." depending on how the ,,, is filled.
"jan ante o ..." anu

"Oh different person" (vocative)
"jan ante ... o".

depends on what goes in the ...

nimi kin li ni:
"o sina kama!" anu

"May you come" (optative)
"sina o kama!" anu

"You, come" (vocative and imperative)
"sina kama o!" anu

"Oh Future You" (vocative)

"o sina o kama o. o o o!". ;) :D

?Not sure what to say, except that this is probably not normal tp. The initial optative marker precludes the later imperative one and makes the vocative use odd. The repeated 'o' at the end has no specific rule but seems misplaced ('o' goes at the beginning of a sentence or at the end of an initial vocative.

o li sama ala, anu seme?

'nimi 'o''?
'o' 1) replaces the subject noun phrase to form the imperative
2) follows an initial noun phrase to form a vocative
3) precedes a sentence to form an optative.
4) if an 'o' from 2 occurs immediately before on from 1 or 3, the two collapse to a single 'o'.

soweliPeka
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:30 pm

Re: o

Postby soweliPeka » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:23 pm

'o' really isn't too hard. Anything in front of the 'o' in a sentence is what or who you are addressing. Anything after an o is a command or request.

So, 'jan Tomini o.' would mean 'Hey Tomini, I'm talking to you'. or something like that.

'o pini!' would mean 'Stop!' or 'o toki tawa mi.' would mean ‘Talk to me.'

You can also combine these – 'jan Tomini o toki tawa mi!' means 'Tomini, talk to me!'

If you wanted to emphasize the addressing the person, and then issue a command, you can break it into two sentences: 'jan Tomini o! o toki tawa mi!' means 'Hey Tomini! Talk to me.'

As far as I know, those are the two major, if not the two only ways of using 'o'.

Or, just follow the four rules jan Kipo had at the end of his post. =]

janSilipu
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:21 am

Re: o

Postby janSilipu » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:32 pm

There is 3: 'o jan Tomini li toki tawa mi' 'I wish that jan Tomini would talk to me' or some such thing.
Last edited by janSilipu on Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

jan Tomini
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:00 am

Re: o

Postby jan Tomini » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:06 am

Thanks! That helped me a lot.

BTW: how to say "thanks" in TP?

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: o

Postby janKipo » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:56 am

pona. (also "You're welcome")

jan Nowo
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: o

Postby jan Nowo » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:29 pm

I added a few verses to Tao:

82.
meli pi len ala li o ala.
jan ala li len e meli pi len ala.
meli pi len ala li jan lawa li jan ilo.
meli ni li len lon ala.

English translation follows just to save everyone the trouble:
82.
Naked woman does not give orders.
You cannot give orders to a naked woman.
Naked woman is a slave and a master.
She is clothed in Tao.

I used o as verb here, I did.

jan Nowo
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: o

Postby jan Nowo » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:02 pm

Second line should read:

jan ala li o e meli pi len ala.

janKipo
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: o

Postby janKipo » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:06 pm

Gee, I only remember 81 chapters in ddj, so this is a new (and very strange) one to me. I'll just go by the English you provide. Using 'o' as a verb "give orders" is questionable, since the function words seem safe from the usual free-wheeling pos assignments. And 'o' does some many things that the probable meaning is not clear. I suppose something like 'toki e wile' is safer.
The second line reads "Nobody can dress a naked woman", not "give orders to". 'jan ilo' is probably pretty good for "slave" except it has a history as "robot". Last line says "This woman is cloth/dressed nowhere" Probably want "len e ala' unless that means "dresses nobody" (I just don't remember).
This is pretty unDaoy in several ways; where is it from?

Sent from my iPad

jan Nowo
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: o

Postby jan Nowo » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:08 am

If you say,

mi o e jan ni.

i.e. I give orders to this man.

no confusion may arise. How would you apply usual function of "o" in this sentence?

mi mute o tawa means let us go. Could you apply the syntax by analogy? You probably could not.

With "li" it is even clearer, so maby you should give an example where confusion might arise. The more compact we make tp, the better. There is this free "o" dangling in the air and I was tempted to use it considering that tp has no word meaning "to command/order".

Moreover, it could be used in the second meaning of "to order", like this:

mi o e ilo pi sitelen tawa kepeken ilo nanpa.

I ordered a TV in an online shop.

Norbert
Last edited by jan Nowo on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.


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