Marriage Certificate in TP

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
jan Nowo
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by jan Nowo »

Hi everyone!

I am just starting with TP, still, I want to write a blog about it and need help with the above translation.

It can be downloaded here:

mediator-mrg.com/mc.zip

Thanks in advance

jan Nowo
janMato
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Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by janMato »

For the ODT file impaired (Sorry can't easily do columns)
"Translation from Slovak into Toki Pona
(National Emblem of the Slovak Republic)
SLOVAK REPUBLIC
CERTIFICATE OF MARRIAGE
No.:
In the marriage notice book of the Registry Office Bratislava - Staré Mesto
volume: 70 year: 2011 page: 113 serial No.: 400, it is entered :
Day, month, year and place of marriage 30/09/2011 – thirtieth day of September, two thousand and eleven
Bratislava - Staré Mesto
First name and surname,
surname at birth BRIDEGROOM
BRIDE
Day, month, year and place of birth 11th December, 1982
Bratislava 20th February, 1978
Bratislava
Birth ID number 821211/0000 785220/0000
Marital status Single Single
First names and surnames of parents and their surnames at birth

née

née
Agreement on surname after marriage and surname of their children (male and female form)
Notes
In Bratislava - Staré Mesto ..........Mgr. XY......
this 7th day of October, 2011 Name and Surname of Registrar
......(signature)..........
Signature
round seal: MUNICIPAL DISTRICT BRATISLAVA - STARÉ MESTO, REGISTRY OFFICE, national emblem"
AND...
(sitelen ma pi ma Sowaki)
ma Sowaki
LIPU PI TU-KAMA-WAN
Nanpa.:

lon lipu mute pi tu-kama-wan lon tomo sitelen mute Patisawa - Tawe Meto
lipu mute: 70 tu-wan luka-wan luka tenpo: 2011 lipu wan: 113 nanpa sin: 400, lon sitelen
tu tu-tu tenpo, mun, tu-wan luka-wan luka tenpo en lon tu-kama-wan 30/09/2011 – wan-tu ala / ala luka-tu-tu / tu ala wan wan
nimi wan en nimi pini, nimi pini pi kama lon MIJE-KAMA-WAN
jan Nowo Mawi
MELI-KAMA-WAN
jan Iveta Wilako
tu tu-tu tenpo, mun, tu-wan luka-wan luka tenpo en ma pi kama lon 11 Deweme, 1982
Patisawa 20 Ebuwa, 1978
Patisawa
nanpa kama lon 821211/0000 785220/0000
lon tu-kama-wan taso taso
nimi wan en nimi pini pi mama en nimi pini mama kama lon jan Iwan Mawi
kama lon Mawi
jan Aweta Mawi
kama lon Saweki
jan Tewa Wilako
kama lon Wilako
jan Ana Wilako
kama lon Sokolo
wile pona pi nimi monsi tu-kama-wan en nimi pini pi jan lili sina mute (mije en meli)
toki lili mute

lon Patisawa- Tawe Meto ..........Mgr. jan XY......
ni 7 tu tu-tu tenpo Otowe 2011 nimi en nimi pini pi jan tomo sitelen mute
......(sitelen jan)..........
sitelen jan
sitelen sike: ma tomo wan pi Patisawa - Tawe Meto, tomo sitelen mute, sitelen ma
janMato
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Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by janMato »

There is a discussion elsewhere on the forum, but I don't like "li wan" to mean "to get married"

"li wan" to a naive eye could mean to become one (as in single, i.e. got divorced) or to become one (as in a single family unit). It works in English because we have two words: one and single. In toki pona, it doesn't, wan covers both meanings.

The usage of "li wan" to mean to marry dates from the early years of toki pona. I recommend doing something else, but I don't want to say I have a great idea.

Some possible suggestions:

meli en mije li wan pi kulupu mama.
meli en mije li tu li kama wan.
tenpo kama la meli en mije li kama lon tomo sama. (moving in together)
jan Nowo
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by jan Nowo »

Thanks a lot for the suggestions...

That is right, if two become one, it might be a divorce, as there is no word for each in TP, is there.
jan Nowo
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by jan Nowo »

Still, could one not say lipu pi sijelo tu kama wan. Can one use dashes in TP?

Like sijelo tu-kama-wan. Like they say in the Bible. Starless and Bible-black day have I and dashful.
janMato
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Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by janMato »

jan Nowo wrote:Still, could one not say lipu pi sijelo tu kama wan. Can one use dashes in TP?

Like sijelo tu-kama-wan. Like they say in the Bible. Starless and Bible-black day have I and dashful.
lipu pi sijelo tu kama wan - sounds fine to me.

The only punctuation that people have adopted in TP are:
. - end of sentence
? - questions
, seems to be rare, some people used to use it to offset la phrases
" direct quotes, delimiter for untranslated foreign text

Dashs aren't used for multiword lexemes because
- we haven't worked out what a word lexeme is. Tests that apply to English don't help in tp-- e.g.if you can't split it, it is probably a word, but in toki pona, inserting the plural marker "mute" sometimes reads better if it is put in the middle of a likely multiword lexeme. Also, since tp is mostly just written and doesn't have native speakers, we can't use accent the way we do to notice that black bird and blackbird have different pronunciations depending on if it is a compound word or a phrase.
- we like the illusion that toki pona has only 123/125 words.
jan Nowo
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by jan Nowo »

You mean what lexeme is in the context of TP, right?

I guess it must mean the same thing as with other languages.

It is interesting what you say about pretending that the vocabulary is limited. It never occured to me. The thing is that you can make yourself understood even if you do not create more words.

Sina sona ala sona e ni: mi toki e ni?

Hope I did not screw up the sentence so that it would become incomprehensible.
janKipo
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Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by janKipo »

Probably, the colloquial would be 'sina sona ala sona e ni: mi toki e seme?" Did you understand what I said. (I am inclined to think yours may be logically more correct, but language isn't logic -- Lojban notwithstanding -- so we go with what folks say. Actually the easiest is 'sina sona ala sona e toki mi (ni)?'

The lexeme/word problem in isolating languages is as old as at least Western attempts at Chinese grammars and probably older. There is no right answer, only more or less consistent total presentations. tp has (fairly) consistently taken the word=lexeme position and allowed many idioms which are to be "explained" analytically -- with a lot of handwaving. the official line is that none of these idioms is a new unit, but only a frequent use of a complex , which can be used for other meanings and whose meaning can be expressed equally well (if not so immediately recognized) by other expressions.
jan Nowo
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by jan Nowo »

mi sona. sin ani lili. mi lon ala toki pali. mi lon wawa pali. pona?
janKipo
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Re: Marriage Certificate in TP

Post by janKipo »

'anu'? "I know. new or few. I am not at the work language. I am at the work power. OK?"
mi pilin e ni: ni li toki e nimi "ala". mi sona ala e toki sina
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