Updated lessons

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
bronger
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:09 am
Location: Aachen, Germany

Re: Updated lessons

Postby bronger » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:35 pm

There are very many -- mostly minor -- flaws that I've found. My starting point would be the German edition because I think that it has been revised already. The German edition already contains a comprehensive word list, which distinguishes between the different word classes.

My general attitude is very conservative regarding this venture. To be honest, I'm also not a big fan of community additions. If one tries to convert Toki Pona to an actually usable everyday language, one will fail. However, I will only create the initial document, and this document is not more than a suggestion.

My hope is that we get at least three regulars (=admins) in the Wiki and as many casual contributors as possible.
Torsten Bronger

janMato
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Location: Takoma Park, MD
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Re: Updated lessons

Postby janMato » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:04 pm

Can't help you with the German one. I'm only half way through with my machine assisted Icelandic translation of the jan Pije lessons.

As long as wiki (which ever site and engine you choose) isn't using localized text (i.e. the labels in the wiki say "edit", "history", "delete" and not some poorly selected single word in toki pona) I can help with editing.

bronger
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:09 am
Location: Aachen, Germany

Re: Updated lessons

Postby bronger » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:11 pm

I will back-translate into English of course! I hope that I can identify the original English paragraphs, so that it is copy-n-paste mostly.
Torsten Bronger

jan-ante
Posts: 541
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Re: Updated lessons

Postby jan-ante » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:52 am

everithing you mentioning here was promissed in jSonja's book, which should be official. everybody can try his own textbook. if you want to start from official one, may be you could first mark the points you want change. e.g., problem of wile, problem of pi, problem of quasi-prepositions.another problem is that most of the words could work as transitive verbs although it is not in official dictionary. e.g. mi suwi e moku. what else? multiple la problem requires a voluntaristic decision, so we can do nothing. could you mention more points?

bronger
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:09 am
Location: Aachen, Germany

Re: Updated lessons

Postby bronger » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:22 pm

My plan is to have special markup for doubtful things that should be discussed on the respective discussion page. It will be highlighted (e.g. bold red). Once there is some sort of agreement, the markup is removed. I hope that we find a way to reach consensus everytime. :D
Torsten Bronger

aikidave
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Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Updated lessons

Postby aikidave » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:13 am

I like your basic idea of using a wiki to update jan Pije's lessons.
I will help as my time permits.
I would suggest adding an appendix for idioms and common use words which we agree upon. I use jan Kipo's spreadsheets to look up expressions I don't know. Example entries could include:

again - sin la
book - lipu toki
city - ma tomo
computer - ilo sona
cry - pana e telo oko
disease - ike sijelo
doctor - jan pi pona sijelo, jan pi sona sijelo
fast - wawa
foolishly - nasa la
fortunately - pona la
game - utala musi
government - kulupu lawa, lawa ma
happy - pilin pona
hate - ona li ike tawa mi
healthy - sijelo pona
heavy - suli
help - pana e pona
here - lon ni
hospital - tomo pi pona sijelo
in my opinion - mi la
internet - ilo wan ma
laptop - ilo sona tawa
left - poka pilin (heart side)
likewise, similarly - kin la
live - lon
look at - lukin tawa
look for - wile lukin e
look like - lukin sama
maybe - ken la
mechanic - jan pi pona pi tomo tawa
meet - kama sona e jan (get to know a person)
memory - sona awen
often - tenpo mute
otherwise - ante la
present - ijo pana
pretty - pona lukin (good looking) (good visually)
prison - tomo awen
rarely - tenpo pi mute lili
remember - awen e sona
repeat - sin la o toki!
right - poka pilin ala
river - telo linja
short time - tenpo lili
sick - ike sijelo
similarly - sama la
sorry - mi pakala! mi pilin ike tawa ni.
storm - kon tawa mute
teacher - jan pi pana sona
television - sitelen tawa
tired - wile lape
toy - ijo musi
truth - lon
unfortunately - ike la
wage, salary - mani pali
walk - tawa noka
week - tenpo esum

bronger
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:09 am
Location: Aachen, Germany

Re: Updated lessons

Postby bronger » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:07 am

aikidave wrote:I like your basic idea of using a wiki to update jan Pije's lessons.
I will help as my time permits.
I would suggest adding an appendix for idioms and common use words which we agree upon. I use jan Kipo's spreadsheets to look up expressions I don't know. Example entries could include:
[...]

Absolutely. Idioms belong into such a book. However, I'd like to see them marked as "informal". If they were "normative", this would mean a hidden enlargement of the word list. The idiom list should help people to get a feeling for the language but if they express a word in a different way which is still understandable, this must be okay.
Torsten Bronger

bronger
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:09 am
Location: Aachen, Germany

Re: Updated lessons

Postby bronger » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:09 pm

Unfortunately, I must give up this proposed Christmas project. I tried to extract the Wiki pages in a format that can be processed further but I have not found a way. And this was the thing that motivated me. ;-)

I still think that this is the way to go: Put Knight's book in Wiki form on the net (figure out the legal stuff first), and make the "Unofficial but definitive Toki Pona book". I would be glad to become one of the regular editors tending the Wiki but I cannot do the initial checkin.
Torsten Bronger

janMato
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Re: Updated lessons

Postby janMato » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:53 am

Re: legal issues and jan Pije's lesson set

The jan Pije lesson set has been release by it's author to public domain, which the most generous terms possible to release something. The jan Sonja material is creative commons. Despite the rumor, there is no trademark on toki pona. So from a legal standpoint, toki pona is very fan friendly, unlike (cough) Klingon, Na'vi, Elvish (although all three of them have done *some* things in concession to the rights of fans)

aikidave
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Re: Updated lessons

Postby aikidave » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:19 am

Is this what people had in mind?
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Updated_ja ... 7s_lessons

Will Wikibooks be adequate for this project. I don't understand the details of creating a book. I am just at the cut and paste stage!

I am on vacation this week so I have some free time to add more of jan Pije's lessons, if that would be helpful.


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