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nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik? - Toki Pona Forums

nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

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Tomaniki
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nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby Tomaniki » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:21 pm

Hello again, Tokiponans! I recently began learning Toki Pona, and I have a question about whether I translated my name correctly. My name is Dominick and it is in English as /'dɒm.ə.nɪk/.

As far as the consonants go, I think I am fine. The only consonant from my name that Toki Pona lacks is 'd', but that is simple enough: The voiced alveolar plosive becomes a voiceless alveolar plosive, similar to how the Latin-based domo becomes tomo in Toki Pona. However, the vowels proved to be a little more difficult. (That's an understatement.)

First, I changed the 'o' to an 'a', since it really does not make that long o sound. The 'a' sound matches much better with the pronunciation. Next, I was unsure how to assess the schwa sound in the second syllable. Tamanik and Tamenik both sound very close, but which is more accurate? I decided with an 'e' since the Italian form of my name "Domenico" uses an 'e'. I figured that it must align more closely with the Romantic pronunciation of my name, but feel free to tell me if you disagree. Finally, there is no ih sound in Toki Pona, so I left the final 'i' as it was (again matching Domenico). Nevertheless, do you feel that Tamenak or perhaps Tamenek is more representative of the English pronunciation of the name Dominick?

This gives me several combinations and quite a headache. I am having a hard time figuring out which is best: Tamanak, Tamanek, Tamanik, Tamenak, Tamenek, Tamenik, Tomanak, Tomanek, Tomanik, Tomenak, Tomenek, or Tomenik? Other than that, I still am left with a final question: does it break any rules of Toki Pona syntax? For example, must it end in a vowel or is it fine as is? If a vowel is needed, I suppose I will adopt an 'o' to indicate it is masculine. Unfortunately, it would then be a four-syllable mess, unless I can drop the schwa and make it, for example, Tamniko.

Thanks so much in advance for your help. I hope to go far with my journey of learning Toki Pona. Any help will really guide me to understanding this language better. Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Nameless. :cry:
Last edited by Tomaniki on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

janMato
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik awa Tamenik?

Postby janMato » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:18 pm

No final consonants other than n, the only legal internal consonant clusters are n + consonant.

I wrote a transliterator that implements most of the old transliteration recommendations. It often works.

http://tokipona.net/tp/Transliterate.aspx

Tomini (or Tomeni)

If you want to preserve the final k sound, you need to pick an extra vowel.

Re gender & -o
In toki pona, the final o is only weekly correlated with a word being a noun, solely on account of some of the nouns being imported from Esperanto. The language of origin has been meticulously research by other people, but I don't really see it as anything more than trivia, 'cause toki pona isn't really a creole with effects from parent languages- when it has effect from other languages, it's invariably English-- as far as I can tell.

So for a more masculine sounding name, it would be

mije Tomini

For a feminine name it would be

meli Tomini

The "conculture" suggested form is gender neutral, which goes along with failing to make distinctions of all sorts, so

jan Tomini

And imho, if one really want to fail to make distinctions, we'd fail to make the distinction between humans and animals

soweli Tomini

Tomaniki
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby Tomaniki » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:41 pm


janKipo
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby janKipo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Two schools of tp name making: sound alone or sound + spelling. 'Tamniki ' is out in any case, since no final 'm' and no nasals together medially (i.e. no 'nm' either). On sound alone, I think I would get Tamani(ki), the other would give 'Tameni(ki) or even 'Tomeni(ki)', though that seems entirely spelling. In the end, it doesn't matter, since whatever you decide (including lots of things not here) will be your tp name as long as you chose to keep it.
BTW your title is ungrammatical: you want 'anu' in the place of 'ala'. And, of course, you need 'nimi' before and quotes around each trial name.

janMato
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby janMato » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:50 pm


Tomaniki
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby Tomaniki » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:01 am

jan Mato en jan Kipo o, sina tu li pana e pona mute tawa me. :D

tenpo ni la jo e nimi tu tu. nimi ni li pona sin tawa me.

nimi pi nanpa wan li nimi 'Tamani'. ni li pona tan ni: nimi 'Tamani' li lili li kute sama nimi mi.

nimi pi nanpa tu li nimi 'Tamaneko'. nimi pi nanpa tu wan li nimi 'Tomaniki'. ona mute li kute pona li awen e wan kute 'K'. pakala taso li ni: nimi ni li suli.

nimi pi nanpa tu tu li musi li nimi 'Tamanki'. ona li awen e wan kute 'K' li kute sama e nimi The Monkey pi toki Inli. :lol: ona li musi li lili li awen e wan 'K'. pakala ni li lon la nimi ni li kute ante e nimi mi pi toki Inli.

seme li pona sin tawa sina? mi ken ala jo e nasin. (How would you say 'to choose'? 'jo e nasin' or 'to have a path' sounds close, no? :? Or is there already a word for it?)

toki! kepeken mi en nimi nasin mi pi toki pona li seme? :oops: o lon. mi kin sin.
Last edited by Tomaniki on Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

janKipo
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby janKipo » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:55 am

mi jo e nimi tu tu'
'pakala taso li ni:' feels bad to me, so I have to wrap my head around it, since it is, in fact, OK.
'pakala ni li lon la nimi ni li kute ante e nimi mi pi toki Inli.' I suppose tis is "If there is a problem, it is that this name sounds different from my English name" I try to avoid 'lon' in this sense as much as reasonable. the 'ni' on the first pakala is unjustified, since there is, as yet, to problem to point to. So, maybe 'pakala li lon la pakala ni li ni:' [yucky poo but unavoidable sometimes] 'kute' is really about hearing, not making a noise, which is 'kalama' so ' nimi ni li kalama ante tan [I think] nimi mi pi toki Inli'
"choose" is officially 'wile' (and no one has suggested a better).

janMato
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby janMato » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:03 am


janKipo
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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby janKipo » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 am

One of the points of 'wile' is that it is for things we don't want to do as well as for those we do (both "have to" and "want to"), so it seems to fit quite well with "choose". Although the ambiguity (from our point of view) may be confusing, I am sure that a native would not be troubled by it -- and thus save himself from a lot of ethical discussions.
As, for example, whether we always chose what we, on balance, want to.

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Re: nimi mi li Tamenik ala Tamenik?

Postby janMato » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:59 am

That doesn't make for a very effective communication system. I get why we drop time, gender-- it's generally clear from context and if you want to communicate time and gender you *can*. Similarly, if something is unpleasant, we can assume that one does it out of obligation. But there are lots of things were context won't tell.

When there are no clues and no means *at all* to communicate something, then communication becomes an episode of "You had to have been there"



meli: ala kin!
mije: ala ala kin!
meli: mi pilin e ni: sina musi kin.
mije: mi musi ala kin.
meli: a!
mije: open la mi kin li ken ala sona e ni.
meli: ni li ante e ale
mije: o toki!

The joke works because they are only reminding each other of information they already know. So they don't need to convey any information to the audience.


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