How do say 'between' in TP

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Mako
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How do say 'between' in TP

Post by Mako »

How you say 'between' in TP? I know that English uses 'between X and Y' and Biblical Hebrew 'between X and between Y'. Either form requires a word 'between'.
jan Akesimun
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by jan Akesimun »

Hm.. Maybe use insa? ken la sina ken toki e ni: ona li lon insa pi ijo en ijo. taso mi sona ala e ni: jan li toki e nimi pi la jan li ken ala ken toki e nimi "en?"
Yo estuve aquí.
janMato
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by janMato »

We need some examples-- prepositions rarely have a one to one translation from one language to the next.

We should keep this between us. mi tu taso li ken sona e ni.
There is a rock between the bear and the bird. kiwen li lon insa ma pi soweli en waso.

I think some sort of "lon insa" strategy would work best.
janKipo
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by janKipo »

Like comparatives, "between" officially requires two sentences: x is between y and z comes out as "y li lon poka x, z li lon poka ante x" "lon insa" works better for groups: "in the middle of, amidst, among". I don't say I like this any more than I like the comparatives; I just reports 'em.
Mako
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by Mako »

janKipo wrote:Like comparatives, "between" officially requires two sentences: x is between y and z comes out as "y li lon poka x, z li lon poka ante x" "lon insa" works better for groups: "in the middle of, amidst, among". I don't say I like this any more than I like the comparatives; I just reports 'em.
So in the statement
"ma tomo Sakamento li lon poka ma tomo pi San Pansiko. ma tomo Sakamento li lon poka ante ma tomo Leno."
a preposition (lon poka) is modified by 'ante'? Are there other TP constructions that use the 'PREP ... PREP ante' formula?
janMato
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by janMato »

Mako wrote:
janKipo wrote:Like comparatives, "between" officially requires two sentences: x is between y and z comes out as "y li lon poka x, z li lon poka ante x" "lon insa" works better for groups: "in the middle of, amidst, among". I don't say I like this any more than I like the comparatives; I just reports 'em.
So in the statement
"ma tomo Sakamento li lon poka ma tomo pi San Pansiko. ma tomo Sakamento li lon poka ante ma tomo Leno."
a preposition (lon poka) is modified by 'ante'? Are there other TP constructions that use the 'PREP ... PREP ante' formula?
The first sentence can't have pi followed by a proper modifier. What ever pi is-- it isn't a content word, so it can't take a modifier. If I remember correctly from country examples, jan Sonja follows two conventions, either treating foreign phrases as a single word, or splitting them up. When split up they don't trigger a pi. And when the proper modifiers are tp words, it isn't clear, e.g. jan Uta Ma or jan Utama for Mrs. Trench-- not enough data.

The second sentence needs a pi, the first probably doesn't.

ma tomo Sakamento li lon poka ante pi ma tomo Leno.

The lon sewi, lon anpa etc phrases are usually treated as if they were just a single compound preposition, but imho, they can still be read either way, so adding a pi helps force the right reading.

waso li tawa lon sewi lawa mi. the bird flies above my head. vs The bird flies on my leader's upper regions.
soweli li tawa lon monsi kasi mi. The mouse waled behind my tree vs The mouse walked on my grassy ass.
akesi li tawa lon anpa noka tu mi. The snake moves under my feet vs The snake moves on my leggy undersides.
janKipo
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by janKipo »

o kama sona e ni: kulupu 'lon poka' li nimi sinpin ala. taso ona li nimi sinpin 'lon' en nimi ijo 'poka' (very suspect grammar here). tan ni la kulupu 'lon poka ante' li kulupu '(lon poka) ante' ala. ona li kulupu 'lon (poka ante). That is, not "differently beside" but "on a different side".

Mato's nice catch on the 'pi' issue is quite apt, though, to be consistent, I would have had 'pi ma tomo SanPansiko' Notice that you have the idiom inside out: it's "San Francisco is on one side of Sacramento, Reno on the other"
Mako
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by Mako »

janKipo wrote:o kama sona e ni: kulupu 'lon poka' li nimi sinpin ala. taso ona li nimi sinpin 'lon' en nimi ijo 'poka' (very suspect grammar here). tan ni la kulupu 'lon poka ante' li kulupu '(lon poka) ante' ala. ona li kulupu 'lon (poka ante). That is, not "differently beside" but "on a different side".

Mato's nice catch on the 'pi' issue is quite apt, though, to be consistent, I would have had 'pi ma tomo SanPansiko' Notice that you have the idiom inside out: it's "San Francisco is on one side of Sacramento, Reno on the other"
a! tenpo ni la mi sona pona.

ma tomo SanPansiko li lon poka ma tomo Sakamento. ma tomo Leno li lon poka ante ma tomo Sakamento.
janKipo
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by janKipo »

pona! ni li lon.
akesipalisa
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Re: How do say 'between' in TP

Post by akesipalisa »

janMato wrote:There is a rock between the bear and the bird. kiwen li lon insa ma pi soweli en waso.

I think some sort of "lon insa" strategy would work best.
Without the English translation, I would hardly be able to understand what "ma pi soweli en waso" were to mean, maybe sth like "land where mammals and birds live", but nothing like "between". What about "kiwen li lon poka soweli en (lon) poka waso"?

jan Elumutu
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