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Toki Pona Forums • o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme - Page 3
Page 3 of 4

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:08 pm
by janKipo
Mato:
"a pi c d as a whole modifies another word or phrase.
a pi b pi c d = (a (b (c d)), and imho is valid. The middle pi phrases however are followed only by one word. The tail must still be two words."
No, the first pi is followed by at least four words: the next 'pi' phrase also follows it. And so on.

In the area of controversy, I have made my position clear (I hope): the preps can modify an NP and, even when doing so, can take their complement NP, but that they then require a 'pi', for clarity (some at least) if nothing else.
not sure draining a swamp is a case of 'weka', but then I have no alternative at the moment. This says that the draining takes place in the middle of the land, wherever that may be.
the next is clearly wrong -- but I would say it was all right with 'pi' before 'lon' (open to authoritative correction; the chain of inference here is long enough to hide some gaps) not sure about duplication for repeated periodic motion or oscillatory.
Next doesn't say quite the same thing, now it's the rippling that is in the middle of the land, not the lake (although, of course, you need the lake there to ripple).
Nor the complementary comma to deal with other ambiguities.
Wrong -- the two-word rule. 'pi' is not a preposition (and preps don't have a two-word rule) so that doesn't help here. I'm afraid I don't see 'telo suli ma' as mud particularly (mo 'ko ma' or some such) That it refers to an aquifier is a better possibility. Not sure about 'kama ala' for "dries up" but seem to work once the nature of telo suli ma is established.
'ijo' isn't a placeholder particularly, though it may be handy when you can't think of the right word. In any case, the dummy isn't necessary, as the natural approach is to drop the 'pi' to achieve the same reference.
I'm not clear about the status of 'pi' as a verb. It seems tied to the notion of 'pi' as a possession marker (so not really a function word) and that seems to have died out early on. But I may be wrong about a lot of this, since there has been nothing definitive for several years.

[A quick check shows that as of a year ago, Sonja was still contemplating preps without 'pi' in NPs and even preferring preps to 'pi'. But these seem to be old notes only slightly revised in 2009, since they still have DOs in NPs and that has been pretty clearly out for ages. So, I don't know where things stand officially -- but you knew that.]

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:05 pm
by pookusarookus
toki ale o!

This is jan andu again. I got pretty busy so its been a while, but I'm still interested in toki pona. I've got a few other things to ask all of you how to translate. If you like I can put it as a different topic I just need to know how to make a different topic. Anyway here are the phrases/words I'd like to know how to say in toki pona:

"fast"
"slow"
"work faster!"
"it is too slow"
"this is fast"
"he is fast"

Any help, as always, is appreciated.
Cheers,
jan andu

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:05 pm
by janKipo
Yeah, this should probably be a new topic. Hit the new topic button at the top of the list for any of the subject on the general index (probably this one, kama sona toki). But for now:
"fast" i.e. high speed. Most people seem to use 'tawa wawa' to talk about going fast and I can't think of anything better off hand. then 'wawa' gets used for fast in other situations as well. The other suggestion (not much taken up) was that doing X fast was 'tenpo lili la ... X mute' "a lot of X in a little time" (there are some problems about 'la' phrases but this one seems OK).
"slow" then is '(pi) wawa ala' ('pi' when it's a modifier) or 'tenpo mute la ....X lili'
Comparatives in tp (now -- I expect this to change over time) are divided into two sentences. One the base case, the other the compared case. Here this amounts to 'sina pali pi wawa lili. o pali pi wawa mute.' Or so.
"too slow" means slower than desired, and the just-right anything is 'pona' English habitually takes negatives to be falling short of pona, so not hot is too cold, while too hot is just that (calling it not hot would lead to unpleasant surprises). I'm not sure what tp's habits will be, but for now I would suggest that "less than just right" is 'lili' and "more" is 'mute'. so, 'ona li tawa pi wawa lili' (Note that the command above could be just 'o pali pi wawa pona', which is probably what is meant"work at the speed I want".)
ni li tawa wawa
mije li tawa wawa.

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:10 pm
by pookusarookus
Thanks. That appears to make a lot of sense. I'm amazed at how well TP uses what it has.-jan andu

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:32 pm
by janMato

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:28 am
by jan Ote

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:25 am
by janMato

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:27 pm
by janKipo
I love (not 'olin' obviously) 'akesi poki' in this context -- pun!
'pi' is a modifier grouper, usually in NPs but needed (and so used) in VPs as well.
They didn't toki e sama because sama are not things you say, but things that say. 'toki tawa sama' and not needed.
I got "talk like a politician and are (no 'sama' here) mere air" The point gets across in any case ('sina toki e ko yaki' works kinda nice, too).
I'm not sure about 'utala' being default physical, but in any case, the aim here is to contrast with 'utala toki'. Here comes a hard question: do critters other than jan have four noka or two luka and two noka, like jan though of different uses? And what about birds and fish and bugs? I suspect it depends on context, in particular, how much the forelegs are being used like hands. Here 'noka' seems right.
Superlatives are comparatives against all 'S X mute S ante ali X lili'. I expect a shortened form (as also for comparatives) but none is in sight. 'jan' is fine, since these are persons -- they talk after all -- in this context. I'm not sure that "great to the acme" is the looked for superlative, but it gets the message across: I got "will be King of the Hill" Of course, the beginning is not a comparative even (unless -- as I would suggest -- every adjective is a comparative, with the standard generally unstated but also possible to be expressed 'pi mi tu' here).
'pini ala tawa' is better, 'awen tawa' is best. "kept on going".
Somewhere I think it says that insa lawa (or is it lawa insa?) is the seat of intelligence and thinking and all that stuff.
"Praise" might just be 'toki e pona' "says good thing"to the turtle because of his deed.
Again, let me remind of 'awen' "keeps on keeping on".

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:22 am
by jan Ote

Re: o jan olin mi sina wile awen anu seme

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:20 pm
by janMato