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derivative of toki pona and Esperanto. - Toki Pona Forums

derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
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Raphaël
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derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Postby Raphaël » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:51 pm

I would like to create a derivative of toki pona and Esperanto. It will must be precise like Esperanto, and as beautiful as toki pona. I think Esperanto sounds very bad, because there's prefix and suffix in the words who mess up the words in question, for example: la malbela instruistoj mangxas la malbonan kukojn: the ugly teachers are eating the bad cakes. If someone has an idea he'll be welcome.

janKipo
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Re: derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Postby janKipo » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:04 pm

A look at the DNA suggests that such a cross would either be stillborn or sterile: tp has a very restricted vocabulary, Eo a practically unlimitedly open one; tp has no cases or tenses, Eo several of each; tp has a rigid word order, Eo (in principle, at least) a relatively free one; tp has no word building, Eo a mass of affixes for derivations and some flatout combination technique; tp has a small phoneme set, Eo a large one by most standards; tp has fairly rigid word structure, Eo has few easily described restrictions on word structure;tp is a language aimed at getting by, Eo is about doing it right.
All that being said, however, I wonder what you envision this hybrid to be like.

janMato
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Re: derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Postby janMato » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:01 pm

Then relex Esperanto with the phonotactics of toki pona. A relex of course is just replacing all the words of one language while leaving the word order, syntax, etc in place. The advantage of a relex is that you could probably write a machine transliterator/translator to translate from Esperanto to toki-eo.

What wouldn't be quick is picking out suitable words for each Esperanto word. I suppose one could use the foreign word transliteration rules, but that is a bit pointless because I can't usually recognize words after they've been boiled down to the letters available in toki pona.

The result would be a language definition as a final product, and would be unlikely to attract fans. There are tons of better Esperantos, all failures because languages are like malls and markets, no one wants to go to the smallest one. For a new language to take hold, it has to have a marketing angle that is significantly different from existing ones.

Tomaniki
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Re: derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Postby Tomaniki » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:44 pm


janSilipu
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Re: derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Postby janSilipu » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:56 pm

I would have supposed that tp, if it got affixed, would put the adjectival ones as suffixes (so pilpono, ponika) and thenominalizing ones as prefixes, following the habits for word combinations. But I don't know if that is the way things usually go in languages.

Tomaniki
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Re: derivative of toki pona and Esperanto.

Postby Tomaniki » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:25 pm



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