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toki pi kalama pona suli - Page 4 - Toki Pona Forums

toki pi kalama pona suli

Language learning: How to speak Toki Pona, translation problems, advice, memory aids, tools and methods to learn Toki Pona and other languages faster
Lingva lernado: Kiel paroli Tokiponon, tradukproblemoj, konsiloj, memoraj helpiloj, iloj kaj metodoj por pli rapide lerni Tokiponon kaj aliajn lingvojn
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jan Josan
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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan Josan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:22 am

wrapping up jan J's story:

...mi wile e ni: pona li kama tawa sina…”

“tenpo ni la mi ken sona e ale,” jan J li lawa e pilin sina. “mi ken ala pilin e ni: jan lawa Inli li wile e musi ike. mi pilin e ni: ona li pana e sona kepeken toki Pasi, tawa mi. taso toki ni li toki Pasi ona, li toki Pasi pakala. toki ni li sama ala toki Pasi. ale li ante. mi pilin e ni: sona pi jan lawa akesi li ante, sama kon tawa. tenpo pini suli la, ona li kute e toki Pasi, li lukin e sitelen Pasi. ona li pana e kalama sama, li sitelen e linja sama. taso ona li kepeken ala e toki Pasi. tenpo li tawa la, jan akesi li ante ale e sona ona. ona li lukin e toki ona pi tenpo pini li ken sona ala e toki ni. tawa ona la, toki ni li toki sin.”

jan J li toki kepeken kalama anpa. taso pilin ona li ante. ona li toki utala “jan akesi li weka e sona ale pi toki ni! sina wile sona e ni: seme li lon? tenpo ni la o sona!” jan J li pini, li lawa e kon sina. “taso ike suli li ni: toki ni, toki pi nimi ala, li pona kin. mi olin suli e toki ni.”

...
I know how "toki pi nimi ala" could be misread, but is it clear in the context?

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:59 am

Yes, "nameless" This final bit reads very smoothly. Thanks.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janMato » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:04 pm

Bump!

Can you post this as a whole? This needs to be in the toki pona corpus file set. I'm was about to try to stitch the parts together, but I don't want to add errors in the stitching.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan Josan » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:57 pm

This, with a new paragraph added to the end, wraps up the first half of the story:

toki pi kalama pona suli
-jan Tomaso Lantopi

suno li kama la mi mute li pine e lape. mi mute li tawa sewi tan supa. mi mute li pilin musi tan sona tu ni: mi moli ala; ijo ale pi tenpo suno ni li sama e ijo pi tenpo suno pini. tenpo suno wan la mi lukin e ma kepeken nasin pi lupa tomo li pilin sama ni. jan pona mi J li kama tawa tomo mi, li pana e kalama luka wawa lon selo pi lupa tomo.

ona li jan pi toki lili. tenpo mute la ona li pali e sitelen, lon poka jan ante ala. ni li musi tawa mi: ona li pilin wawa. mi len. mi tu li toki e ijo lili. ni li nasa tawa mi: pilin ona li ante tan ike pakala tawa pona sewi. mi ken sona pona e ni: ijo nasa anu ijo ike li kama tawa ona. tenpo lili li tawa. mi kute e ona. ona li toki e ni: ona li jo e toki nasa. ona li wile toki e toki ni tawa mi. ona li ken toki e ni kepeken nimi lili. taso ona li toki e nimi ni: “toki mi li lukin nasa tawa sina la, o pini ala e mi!”

mi wile sona e ni: seme li lon? mi toki e ona: “o toki.”

ona li open e toki kepeken nimi ni: “tenpo suli pini la mi pali mute e musi sewi. mi lukin e ijo lili ale, lon insa sitelen. kepeken nasin ni la, mi kama sona e ni en ni taso: mama sitelen li jo e ilo pali ale pi musi sewi la, ona li pali ike. jan li sona pona e toki la, ona li pali ike, kepeken toki ni. jan li sona lili e toki ante la, ona li ken pali e musi pona en suli, kepeken toki ante ni. mi wile ala toki e ni: mi kama sona e sona ni kepeken nasin ike seme? taso, sona mi li pona. ni li lon: jan li sona ala e nimi ale la, jan li wile kepeken e sona sike, e sitelen ante. sina ken musi e ni: muse sewi seme li kama? mama musi li ken weka e toki moli kepeken nasin ni: ona li weka e nimi pi toki suli li weka e toki sama toki pi tenpo pini. tenpo ni la, musi sewi li ken kama lon.”

jan J li pilin pona. ona li pilin e ni: sona ona li pona. ona li pine e toki li pini lili e oko sina. ona li weka e ike sina. taso ona li lukin e ni: mi sona ala e toki ona. ona li pana e a anpa, li toki wawa e nimi ni:

“tenpo pini ni la, mi kama sona e jan sin. ona li ,a…, li jan akesi jaki! mi ken ala kin nimi e ona kepeken nimi ante. ona li jan akesi jaki li lawa Inli pi tomo tawa telo. tenpo kama la, sina kama sona e ni: mi nimi e nimi ‘jan akesi jaki’ tawa jan ni tan seme. a! tan seme la, jan sewi o, sina li weka ala e ike ni lon mi? tenpo ala la mi ken pilin pona!
jan akesi ni li jo e selo mute. ona li moku lon tomo pi esun moku mi. ona li toki e pali sina kepeken kalama suli. tenpo ale la jan mute li sike e ona li kute. tenpo mute la ona li lon ma Asija li kama sona e toki ante mute tan ma ni. taso ona li toki suli kin e sona ona pi toki Pasi. tenpo mute la ona li toki e kalama nasa wan anu tu lon anpa nena pi jan pali pi esun mi. jan pali li open en pine wawa e oko ona, li sona ala e toki pi jan lawa Inli. jan lawa li lukin musi li toke e nimi ni: ‘a! mi wile e telo nasa!’ anu ‘a! mi wile moku e wan soweli seli.’ sina sona e ni: mi pilin ike mute tawa jan ni. taso tenpo suno wan ike la mi en ona li toki. ona li toki e ni: ‘mi ken pana e sona pi toki Pasi tawa sina.’ mi wile sona e ni: sona pi pali musi suli mi li pona ala pona? tan ni la mi wile kama jo e sona ona. tenpo ni la sina sona e ni: mi wile kama sona lili e toki Pasi. mi wile e ni: mi ken toki e pilin mi kepeken toki Pasi. taso mi wile ala kepeken ale e toki ni.
mi kama sona pona e toki Pasi. mi jo ala e toki awen pi toki Pasi. taso jan lawa Inli li toki e ni: jan li wile kama sona e toki sin la, ona li toki mute kepeken toki ni. mi mute li tawa lon nasin li toki kepeken e toki Pasi taso. mi mute li pilin lape la, mi awen poka ona lon tomo moku. ona li sitelen mute e linja sike lili pi toki Pasi. tenpo sike suno wan la, mi lon, kepeken nasin ni. jan lawa li toki e ni: ona li pana e sona mute tawa mi. sona mi li pona li suli. tenpo suno sike li pine la, ona li toki e ni: ona li weka. ken la ona li tawa ma Sukosi. mi sona ala e ni: ona li lon ma seme? taso mi wile e ni: ona li kama lon ike.”

jan pona mi li pini. ona li wile lawa e pilin sina. oko en uta ona li jo e lukin pi pilin pakala. kepeken pali mute la, ona li kama pona li toki:

“jan akesi li weka. taso tenpo pini ni la mi ken toki lili kepeken toki Pasi li ken pali e sitelen kepeken toki Pasi. mi pali mute. mi kama jo e lawa ni: ‘o sitelen kepeken e toki Pasi taso. o sitelen taso e musi sewi, tan pilin pi lon insa mi. mi mama e toki pi kalama pona a! tenpo suli la, mi sitelen, kepeken toki Pasi. pona la, mi sitelen lili, kepeken tenpo suli. mi pali e sitelen lili tu wan taso. sina ken lukin e ni. sina ken lukin e sitelen mi pi kepeken toki Pasi.”

mi ken sona e ni: ona li jo e pilin moli tan pali sina kepeken toki Pasi. taso mi sona ala e ni: tan seme?

“kepeken toki Pasi.” tenpo nanpa tu la, ona li toki e toki ni. “taso tenpo ni la, sina ken sona e ni: toki Pasi pi jan akesi li toki ike kin! tenpo mun pini la mi wile lukin e pali pi mama suli pi toki Pasi. tenpo pini la, mi lukin e sitelen ona, kepeken toki ante. taso, tan pi toki ona li toki Pasi. mi pilin e ni: ona li sitelen kepeken toki Pasi. mi ken sona e toki sina kepeken toki Pasi. kepeken pali mute la, mi kama jo e toki awen pi mama ni. toki awen li kama, lon insa poki pona. mi pilin wawa. mi tawa wawa e tomo mi. mi suno e ilo suno. mi anpa e mi tawa supa, li seli e kasi kon. mi kama jo e toki awen tan insa poki. mi pini e kon mi, li open e toki awen.

nanpa wan la, mi pilin e ni: mi kama jo e toki awen ike. sitelen ni li lukin sama ala e sitelen pi jan Inli. taso tenpo ni la mi sona e ni: toki awen li pona. nanpa tu la, mi pilin e ni: ken la, mi kama sona e toki Pasi. taso jan akesi li kepeken e sitelen ante. mi lukin lon ma ale. mi lukin lon lipu mute kepeken toki Pasi. mi lukin lon toki awen mute pi lawa toki kepeken toki Pasi. taso, lon pini… lon pini…” tenpo ni la jan J li pana e oko telo, “mi kama sona e monsuta ni: jan akesi li pana ala e sona pi toki Pasi tawa mi! ken la mi kama sona e toki ante: toki Jakuto anu toki Hajinanese anu toki Hotentote. mi toki tawa jan lawa pi sona toki. ala. ala. toki ni li lon ala! tenpo ale la toki ni li lon ala! pini la, mi pana e sitelen toki, tawa jan lawa Inli pi tomo tawa telo. tenpo pimeja pini la mi kama jo e sitelen ona.”

jan J li pana e lipu tawa mi li anpa e lawa ona. mi lukin e sitelen ni:

“jan suli o,
mi kama jo e sitelen sina. nanpa wan la, sina pana e wan toki kepeken toki nasa musi. mi sona e toki pi ma mute. taso tenpo ala la mi lukin e toki sama toki sina. mi pilin e ni: toki ni li tan sona wawa pi lawa sina. sitelen nasa ni li lukin sama lili e toki Alapi anu toki Po. taso ona li sitelen ni ala.
nanpa tu la, sina toki e tenpo ni: mi pana sona e toki kepeken toki Pasi, tawa sina. tenpo pini suli la mi kama sona e toki Pasi. ken la ike lili wan anu tu li kama lon toki mi kepeken toki Pasi. taso o pilin ike ala tan ni. sina ken pona e ike ni kepeken pali lili.
tenpo kama la mi lukin jo e sitelen sina sin. mi wile e ni: pona li kama tawa sina…”

“tenpo ni la mi ken sona e ale,” jan J li lawa e pilin sina. “mi ken ala pilin e ni: jan lawa Inli li wile e musi ike. mi pilin e ni: ona li pana e sona kepeken toki Pasi, tawa mi. taso toki ni li toki Pasi ona, li toki Pasi pakala. toki ni li sama ala toki Pasi. ale li ante. mi pilin e ni: sona pi jan lawa akesi li ante, sama kon tawa. tenpo pini suli la, ona li kute e toki Pasi, li lukin e sitelen Pasi. ona li pana e kalama sama, li sitelen e linja sama. taso ona li kepeken ala e toki Pasi. tenpo li tawa la, jan akesi li ante ale e sona ona. ona li lukin e toki ona pi tenpo pini li ken sona ala e toki ni. tawa ona la, toki ni li toki sin.”

jan J li toki kepeken kalama anpa. taso pilin ona li ante. ona li toki utala “jan akesi li weka e sona ale pi toki ni! sina wile sona e ni: seme li lon? tenpo ni la o sona!” jan J li pini, li lawa e kon sina. “taso ike suli li ni: toki ni, toki pi nimi ala, li pona kin. mi olin suli e toki ni.”

tenpo ni la, jan J li pini kin. ona li lawa e pilin sina la, mi open e toki mi. “ijo ni li ike. sina pali mute li kama jo ala. taso ken la ike ni li suli ala.” taso jan J li pilin sama ala. “sina ken sona ala sona e ike ni? sina ken pilin seme tan musi suli mi? mi pali e musi suli tu wan. musi suli ni li jo e pona ale pi kon mi. musi suli ni li seme? musi ni li kepeken toki pi lon ala. ni li sama e ni: musi suli li kepeken toki ala.” mi kama sona e pilin sina. mi toki e ni: “a. ni li ijo pi lukin ike.” ona li kalama:“sina toki ala noki e ni: ijo pi lukin ike?...taso…”
tenpo suno ni li lon tenpo pini pona. tenpo pimeja mute la, mi tu li lon esun moku. mi tu li lukin e sitelen suli e musi suli. mi toki pi ijo suli li jo ala e mani tawa moku pini mi.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:47 am

Nice.
<<tenpo ni la, jan J li pini kin. ona li lawa e pilin sina la, mi open e toki mi. “ijo ni li ike. sina pali mute li kama jo E ala. taso ken la ike ni li suli ala.” taso jan J li pilin sama ala. “sina ken sona ala sona e ike ni? sina ken pilin seme tan musi suli mi? mi pali e musi suli tu wan. musi suli ni li jo e pona ale pi kon mi.[?] musi suli ni li seme? musi ni li kepeken E toki pi lon ala. ni li sama e ni: musi suli li kepeken Etoki ala.” mi kama sona e pilin sina. mi toki e ni: “a. ni li ijo pi lukin ike.” ona li kalama:“sina toki ala Toki e ni: ijo pi lukin ike?...taso…”
tenpo suno ni li lon tenpo pini pona. tenpo pimeja mute la, mi tu li lon esun moku. mi tu li lukin e sitelen suli e musi suli. mi toki pi ijo suli li jo ala e mani tawa moku pini mi.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan Josan » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:30 am

Last paragraph again--all 'musi suli' to 'musi sewi' to match before. 'kon mi' to 'kon sewi mi' (to clarify soul, not breath), added 'e's:

tenpo ni la, jan J li pini kin. ona li lawa e pilin sina la, mi open e toki mi. “ijo ni li ike. sina pali e mute li kama jo e ala. taso ken la ike ni li suli ala.” taso jan J li pilin sama ala. “sina ken sona ala sona e ike ni? sina ken pilin seme tan musi sewi mi? mi pali e musi sewi tu wan. musi sewi ni li jo e pona ale pi kon sewi mi. musi suli ni li seme? musi ni li kepeken e toki pi lon ala. ni li sama e ni: musi suli li kepeken e toki ala.” mi kama sona e pilin sina. mi toki e ni: “a. ni li ijo pi lukin ike.” ona li kalama:“sina toki ala noki e ni: ijo pi lukin ike?...taso…”
tenpo suno ni li lon tenpo pini pona. tenpo pimeja mute la, mi tu li lon esun moku. mi tu li lukin e sitelen suli e musi suli. mi toki pi ijo suli li jo ala e mani tawa moku pini mi.


sina pali mute li kama jo E ala >> I went back and forth on this one (you gave and didn't receive vs. you gave a lot and received nothing) Notice above now "pali e mute" too -- right, wrong? I feel like they should agree in structure but every solution feels strange.

kepeken (language) vs. kepeken e (language) always gets me confused too.

musi suli ni li jo e pona ala pi kon sewi mi -- Does this make sense now?

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:02 am

'kepeken e x' when 'kepeken' is a verb (right after 'li') and 'kepeken x' when it is a preposition (after verb and complements and or objects). Fairly clear cut but still not as tidy as might be.
<<“sina toki ala noki e ni: ijo pi lukin ike?...taso…”>> 'ala toki'
Somewhere else among the fora here is the note that 'sama' doesn't take 'e' even as a verb (for direct comparisons), so 'ni li sama ni' which is more confusing than even before (only one deictor).
I don't know which of the object/adverb to use in each case, nor (now) why I chose to "correct" one and not the other. Both make sense, and pretty much the same sense, so we're down to aesthetics again. Did he in fact make anything? If not, then the adverb gets precedence. He certainly got nothing, but also didn't receive, so maybe this just follows the other. Sorry, about that.
Is 'lukin ike' meant to be "ugly"? If so, 'ike lukin' (cf 'pona lukin' for "pretty") or 'akesi'
<<ona li lawa e pilin sina>> ?? "He/it leads your feelings/thoughts"?? maybe (a stretch in tp) "Your thoughts are led" I either don't understand this or don't see how it fits in to the rest of the sentence.
All the above gets me worrying about 'pilin seme' and whether it needs an 'e' I guess it depends on whether there is a concrete thought asked for or only a feeling . Whatever that means.
Of course, being in a group of people who write stuff in constructed languages, I have to feel that J is overreacting. His works of art have value as artifeacts, even if they are not in the language he thought they were in. They are, in fact, in some language, just not Farsi.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan-ante » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:37 am


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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:52 pm

Yes and an occasional maybe.
I suppose dropping the 'e ni' before quotes is bound to happen.
The use of PP in the condition slot has occurred without vigorous attack. In this case, though, it seems just to be a displaced final PP and maybe should stay at the other end. 'sona e ni en ni taso' looks at a number of problems: how to say "just these " rather than "just this" and how to do conjoint (rather than logical) conjunctions in DO space. Happily, the solution given solves both, since 'ni' can cover any number of indicated things, however considered. (The problems remain for other cases, however.)
<<ona li pana e a anpa, li toki wawa e nimi ni:

ona li pana e kon, li toki mute:...>>
I like 'a' as a noun in this case or, even better, as a verb: 'ona li a anpa' (though I am not sure if 'anpa' is right for "low" in this sense.
<<tan seme la, jan sewi o, sina li weka ala e ike ni lon mi?

jan sewi o, sina li weka ala e ike ni lon mi tan seme?>>
Here the conditional PP breaks up a cluster of PPs at the end, so might be justified aesthetically. Why 'lon mi' with 'weka? I would expect 'tan mi'
<<jan akesi ni li jo e selo mute.

not like in the text, but sounds funny. in the text:
ona li lukin sama jan ante mute>>
'selo suli' maybe clearer, unless 'mute' is used here for bulk as opposed to just dimensions. 'jan ante mute' "big different man" , maybe 'jan pi ante mute' "a very different man"?
I suppose 'anpa nena' calques "under the nose of" for a kind of bravado performance, though the cookshack work hardly seems an authority to be defied.
'jan lawa Inli' is just "the English captain" I suppose. HRH is probably 'jan lawa pi ma Inlan' (well, Piten)

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan-ante » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:31 pm



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