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toki pi kalama pona suli - Toki Pona Forums

toki pi kalama pona suli

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jan Josan
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toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan Josan » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:08 pm

I am beginning a translation of Tommaso Landolfi's "Dialogue of the Greater Harmonies"
all suggestions welcome

toki pi kalama pona suli
-jan Tomaso Lantopi

suno kama la mi mute li pine e lape. mi mute li tawa sewi tan supa anpa. mi mute li pilin musi sama e sona tu: mi moli ala; ale li ante ala. tenpo suno wan la mi pilin sama ni. mi lukin e tomo lupa tawa ma li kepeken e sona lili. jan pona mi J li kama tawa tomo mi, li pana e kalama luka wawa lon selo pi tomo lupa.

ona li jan pi toki lili en pilin ike. tenpo mute la ona li pali, lon poka jan ante ala. tenpo suno wan ni la, ni li musi kin: ona li jo e wawa mute. mi len. mi mute li toki e ijo lili. ni li nasa: pilin ona li ike pakala en pona sewi. kepeken pali lili la, mi ken sona e ni: ona li kama jo e ijo nasa anu ijo ike kin. tenpo lili li kama. mi kute e ona. ona li toki e ni: ona li jo e toki nasa. ona li wile toki e ni tawa mi. ona li ken toki e ni kepeken tenpo lili. taso ale li lukin nasa la, mi ken ala pini e toki ona.

mi wile sona e ni: seme li lon? mi toki e ona: o toki.
...

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan-ante » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:17 pm


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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:32 pm

iknwitsvsytmbtitisannyng!

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janMato » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:57 am

*edits in bold

I'll defer to others on the copy-editing. I understood your version just fine, but I'll add an alternate version to the first para.

tempo mun ni la mi lape. suno li kama. mi lape ala.

mi lukin e mi. mi moli ala! a a a! mi pilin e pona.
mi lukin e ijo mi. ijo li awen e ijo mi! a a a! mi pilin e pona.

tempo mute la sina pilin ala pilin e ni kin lon tempo pi kama suno?

mi lukin e ala lon lupa tomo. mi pilin sama e ni: mi pali ala e lawa insa mi. oko mi li pali ala.

tempo suno ni la jan pona mi li kama tawa tomo mi. jan li pana e kalama mute lon lupa tomo. (previously "lupa tomo pi jan mute"-- I had in building-hole for people, as opposed to window)
Last edited by janMato on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:34 pm

<<tempo mute la sina li pilin e ni kin lon tempo pi kama suno?>>
Need something to make this a question, if you want that" 'sina pilin ala pilin e ni' (no 'li' in this case)

<<mi pali ala e lawa mi>> "I do not make my head"? 'lawa mi li pali ala'?

<<mi lukin e ala lon tomo lupa.>> "I see nothing in the dugout" 'lupa tomo' "door"?

<<tempo suno ni la jan pona mi li kama tawa tomo mi. jan li pana e kalama mute lon lupa tomo pi jan mute.>> "in the door of many people"? maybe 'lupa pi tomo pi jan mute' "at the door of the house of many people (apartment building, dorm)?

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janMato » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:47 pm

* edit, do'h needed to reverse order of lupa tomo.

There's got to be a clever way to distinguish door and window.

lupa tomo. door, window, skylight, that hole the tree made when it fell through the living room ceiling
lupa tomo tawa suno. window, building hole for sun. Do I need relative clauses to use this phrase?
mi lukin e soweli kepeken lupa tomo tawa suno.
tawa suno looks like a prep phrase that modifies a noun in another prep phrase. Is that legal?

lupa tomo tawa mun. opposite of tomo lupa tawa suno, but entirely to clever to be transparent.

lupa tomo suli. Big window/door
lupa tomo jan. People's building hole.

lupa tomo open. opening building hole.
tomo lupa pi kama open.
Last edited by janMato on Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby janKipo » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:40 pm

Short forms :'lupa tomo tawa' 'lupa tomo lukin' which ignores French doors, etc. But you can't use relative clauses in tp, you need another whole sentence and it just doesn't seem worth while. As for prep phrases modifying nouns, it is not clear whether it is legal or not (but probably is when we get around to making the rules clear) and, if it is, whether it needs 'pi' or not (I think it does, but ...). (I note, looking back, that 'lupa tomo tawa' does not -- and, indeed, cannot -- mean "a hole in a car"

Note throughout that 'lupa tomo' is a dugout (in the early Kansas sense), a hole that is a house or home or some sort of structure.

We also need to distinguish doors from doorways (which is what 'lupa tomo' and the like are) and windowways from windows, at least sometimes. For some reason, 'sinpin' comes to mind in this connection.
Last edited by janKipo on Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan Josan » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:49 pm


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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan-ante » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:15 pm


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Re: toki pi kalama pona suli

Postby jan Josan » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:19 pm

toki pi kalama pona suli
-jan Tomaso Lantopi

suno kama la mi mute li pine e lape. mi mute li tawa sewi tan supa. mi mute li pilin musi tan sona tu ni: mi moli ala; ijo ale pi tenpo suno ni li sama e ijo pi tenpo suno pini. tenpo suno wan la mi pilin sama ni. mi lukin e lupa tomo tawa ma li kepeken e sona lili. jan pona mi J li kama tawa tomo mi, li pana e kalama luka wawa lon selo pi lupa tomo.

ona li jan pi toki lili. tenpo mute la ona li pali, lon poka jan ante ala. ni li musi tawa mi: ona li kama jo e wawa mute. mi len. mi tu li toki e ijo lili. ni li nasa tawa mi: pilin ona li ante tan ike pakala tawa pona sewi. mi ken sona pona e ni: ijo nasa anu ijo ike li kama tawa ona. tenpo lili li tawa. mi kute e ona. ona li toki e ni: ona li jo e toki nasa. ona li wile toki e toki ni tawa mi. ona li ken toki e ni kepeken nimi lili. taso ona li wile e ni: toki ona li lukin nasa tawa mi la, mi ken ala pini e toki ona.

mi wile sona e ni: seme li lon? mi toki e ona: o toki.

ona li open e toki ona kepeken nimi ni: “tenpo suli pini la mi pali mute e musi suli. mi lukin e ijo lili ale, lon insa musi suli. kepeken nasin ni la, mi kama sona e ni en ni taso: jan musi li jo e ilo pali ale pi musi suli la, ona li pali ike. jan li sona pona e toki la, ona li pali ike, kepeken toki ni. jan li sona lili e toki ante la, ona li ken pali e musi pona en suli, kepeken toki ante ni. mi wile ala toki e ni: mi kama sona e sona ni kepeken nasin ike seme? taso, sona mi li pona. ni li lon: jan li sona ala e nimi ale la, jan li wile kepeken e sona sike, e sitelen ante. sina ken musi e ni: muse suli seme li kama? o weka e nimi pi toki suli en toki sama toki pi tenpo pini la, jan li kepeken ala e toki moli. tenpo ni la, musi suli le ken kama lon.”

jan J li pilin pona. ona li pilin e ni: sona ona li pona. ona li pine e toki li pini lili e oko sina. ona li weka e ike sina. taso ona li lukin e ni: mi sona ala e toki ona. ona li pana e a anpa, li toki wawa e nimi ni:


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